Tango Argentino > Sacadas for Dummies

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Mario7, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. Mario7

    Mario7 Member

    Hi, I dance old traditional style (close embrace) A.T. and I have a question that if answered, in the positive, will save me a lot of thinking..haha... true! The sacada is my last hold-out, unlearned tango trick that I have not been able to do...and a question occurred to me that if answered in the positive, will save me a lot of time figuring out how/when to do them.
    Q: are sacadas always (or 90+%) done in crossed footed position and/or at least on an off beat so that it, in effect, it amounts to crossed footed dancing...? if only for an instant?

    I've already received the instruction that I lean too far forward (apilado) to do sacadas and so I have corrected that....also, from observation it seems to me that the best sacadas are done thigh to thigh...and good sacaderos seem to keep the sacada foot more on the floor than not.... (unsure)....Anyway, if the answer to the above question is 'Yes' then at least I will know that I always have to have the effect of crossed feet for the moment of the sacada... I hope that I am using the correct verbiage to describe my question... thank you in advance.
  2. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    I would say yes, I suppose so, for the common ones.

    I would say they are rarely done that high, more often at ankle or calf height.

    I often give this hint about sacadas - give your partner a large step just prior to doing a sacada, so there is plenty of space between her feet. Some students are timid about sacadas and try to do them with barely any opening between their partners feet, which makes it difficult, if not impossible.
    Mario7 likes this.
  3. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    However, a thigh to thigh sacada is more direct as the entire leg will be displaced upon contact.
  4. pwpulto

    pwpulto Member

    Can anyone explain what a "crossed footed position" is? Is it a cruzado position? If that is the meaning: all sacada's can be done cruzado as well as parallel. That means: when you have a position of the partner receiving the sacada, the partner doing the sacada can always enter with either foot.

    What is "the sacada foot"? It takes two to tango and in a sacada there are always two feet involved, a foot doing the sacada and a foot receiving the sacada....
    Anyway, when not doing some kind of adorno, feet are always kept close to the floor in tango.
  5. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    Sacada is an illusion and there shouldn't be actual contact.
    It becomes cenfrifugal energy of a free leg.
    There are linear and circural sacadas

    linear sacadas:
    When walking forward cross system just try to step to old standing leg that will go in sacada.
    Instead of stepping outside for ocho step inside for linear sacada:

    Technique for circular sacada:
    You should step between receiver as near of standing leg while doing circular lead of upper part.
    It is much easier to perform it in open hold. Cause you create maximum dissociation while you land a foot.
    From that circular energy sacada is created.
    It is much easier to perform circural sacada in open hold than in closed.
    In close embrace it is more difficult cause it's harder to create circular energy of upper part of body.
    You need to rotate upper body first that would pull hips and then eventually leg so you can place on standing leg.

    Without mastering a sacada in open hold it would be impossible to do it close embrace.

  6. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Hi and happy new 2013

    No, it should not be that way. But a lot of stage-influenced teacher only teach that ones. And others simply find it x-system easier because they have to open their embrace anyway due to their poor dissociation capabilities.

    No, rather on the strong beat. But everything is possible.

    That instructor seems to have a different background than yours. He does not know better. But your torso and your leg movement must of course be coherent.

    Do it as smooth and soft as possible. They all need a high degree of femural external rotation. But nevertheless: a sacada is an illusion, so there should only be little or no physicial impact on the followers leg.

    Wrong, a sacada is a step in transition so you cannot do a sacada and weight that foot down at the same time.

    You are welcome!
  7. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Not the way I dance it. For me the whole pleasure of a sacada is the contact. If I didn't touch my partner's foot or leg, it would be a wasted movement. I can do it strongly, gently, quickly, slowly, sometimes just a bare brush.

    There are some followers who do an automatic swing of their leg, which takes all the fun out of it. I've had partners scare me because they did a big automatic swing of their leg in a crowded situation, where I only wanted a tiny little gesture.

    There is certainly an appropriate way to do them, and it's not a kick, for sure. But it is much more than an illusion.
  8. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    There is no right or wrong in tango. If your dance partner likes it, then it should be alright. But your way of dancing would have not been possible with that kind of demanding girls I used to dance with.
  9. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Yes, of course. I'm just reporting my experience.
  10. Mario7

    Mario7 Member

    ....... 'demanding women'.... not fun!:(
  11. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    I dance differently. I feel how her legs are moving so I don't need to kick her or touch her legs.
    If I do a leg wrap I would maybe feel her leg or maybe in a parada when she would brush me.
  12. Mladenac

    Mladenac Well-Known Member

    I was told there is not kicking and brushing in sacada and I perform it that way.
    I don't know how followers receive your sacada at international events.

    Those followers do not follow properly, obvious.
    When I notice that kind of behaviour I don't lead that elements any more.

    Maybe I didn't write full sentence.
    Sacada is an illusion of a kick. There is no kick or any other contact with legs.
    Movement of a leg comes from the upper body movement, not a leg contact.
  13. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Maybe we're having a semantic disagreement, as so often happens.

    I agree there is no kick. I do not agree there is no contact between legs, ankles or feet.

    I don't know why a couple on a social dance floor would do a movement that has no contact and purely gives illusion. Especially when there is so much potential for very nice contact between the partners.
  14. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    I think I agree with Mladenac, though I might phrase it a little differently.

    A sacada is a movement where one partner steps into the space the other partner is leaving. Any and all interactions between their bodies are a consequence of that movement. So there can be touch or no touch. The degree of touch is a matter of stylistic preference, not one of technique. The technique part of the equation is the exchange of weight in such a way that the partner entering the space does not commit to the step until their partner is changing weight to their new standing leg, or else they will impact (kick) their partner's leg rather than displace (touch) it. That's the illusion part.

    That's about as generic a definition as I think you can get. :)
    Mladenac likes this.
  15. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Yes, I agree with this definition, the leader steps into a space being vacated by the follower.

    I guess so, but for me, the whole worth of the step is the contact. Without the contact, I wonder why do the step?
  16. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

  17. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    There are times when it makes sense. To power a rotational movement. To get a feeling of rubber-bandy exchange of energy between the the leader and follower. The latter is usually more an element of open embrace styles.

    Let's not forget follower sacadas, which are a playful element. Whether they touch or not, it can be amusing as a follower to have the leader make you push them out of the way. :p
  18. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Maybe I'm missing your point. How can someone push another person out of the way without making contact?
  19. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    Meh, I didn't mean literally push in that case, I meant they have to push into their space. Though in CE it would be pushing, from the torso.
  20. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    i think that's a good description. I see plenty of people fail to sacadas becuase they think the contact creates the movement ( and sometimes resulting in what would be given a Yellow Card on a football field) and not the dynamic of moving bodies..

    some sacadas do require contact; linear ones for instance; the follower's leg is displaced from the path it would have taken, but circular ones arising from a giro, contact is optional.

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