Re: The funny part is that Sabor is right... while I agree with the bases of your presentation, I have to further explain my position on why I see it differently... If Eddie Palmieri, Willie Colon, Hector, Max Salazar, Miguel Rondon, etc all say that yeah, even if salsa isn't a genre on its own and the old schoolers belief on being mambo is understandable but put against history and audible musical equality doesn't hold water, and even if in a music sheet it looks like Mambo, it is a sound of its own, one that a Mambo beat will sound very un-like. And why the perplexion of playing it for years is understandible when put upon my research of salsa's history. It is more of an attitude, a different sound, a belief on playing music if you will, one that old schoolers and music purists never agreed with, because when they read a salsa sheet they read a mambo sheet, or as cachao used to call it, a guaguanco with new arrangements... to them if there isn’t a music sheet for salsa, then there is no music, but as we can all tell, a mambo sound and a salsa sound aren’t the same. This argument will never end mainly because of incomplete information by arguing parties and different beliefs over the same thing, but what will change is the understanding that if Salsa and Mambo are the same, Salsa would not be the 3rd of Latin Sounds born in the US, sounds that even Cuban musicologists (Olavo Rodriguez, Leonardo Padura, amongst many more), band leaders as Juan Formell from los van van, Alberto Alvares, even Dominican most prominent musician (Juan Luis Guerra) say Salsa is salsa, it is not guaguanco with new arrangements, nor Mambo. It is a sound of its own that even if, at the time they were interviewed, salsa still didn't have a genre of its one, nor a music sheet of its own, the sound coming out of what is called salsa, sounds nothing like a mambo, nor anything that had ever been created in music until the sound from the 1970s coming out of NY City. And why all musicians, as well as all musicologists that study salsa and specialize in the history of salsa say that Salsa is more of an attitude a belief, a way of playing music that takes a form of its own, a metamorphosis of son, mambo, guaguanco and turn it into, yes a completely different music of its own, something more than mambo, regardless of what the music sheet says... Even looking at Mambo, a mambo sound will never have guaguanco, meringue, samba, bomba, pleana, etc in it, while it is very common in a Salsoso sound. The only people that refute that notion are music purist, mainly old schoolers like cachao and tito puentes, that as every one knows never played salsa, but mambo-jazz, and because of those beliefs mocked Salsa as being something you put in food. For we all know that for all new discoveries, inventions, there has to be those that refute it, for the sake of belief, tradition even pride. Kind of like those opposing timba in todays "salsoso" sound. Even when I'm not musically savvy as others, a mambo can be differentiated from a salsa as soon as the first bar plays. For I am not talking about the underlying equality of the music sheet of salsa and mambo, but rather, the message, the idea, and how the sound comes across, and why everyone that is of outmost presence, and a historian of salsa music doesn’t equate musical sheet equality to the same sound of salsa music and mambo music, which are indeed today categorized as two different animals... what is the same is the dance to both of them... Keep in mind that if Mambo and Salsa were the same, then NY City would not be the place of birth of Salsa, for as well all know, as well as it being a historical fact, that salsa came out of NY City, not Cuba, not Puerto Rico. That we accept that or not has nothing to do with what is the truth behind the sound argued to be Mambo because of structure found in a music sheet, but when played... the difference is of outmost audibility. One that can’t be said to be the same as Mambo… for it sounds nothing like mambo... Ever been to a live concert from a top band? Often even they’ll announce what music they are playing, here is a mambo, and now a salsaita… even when the sheets are the same... Ref: faces of Salsa by Leonardo Padura El Libro De La Salsa by Cesar Miguel Rondon And an array of other books I’ve read which I forget names and authors, of which non equal salsa to mambo, but do stress the equality of the music sheet.