Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Gssh, Mar 25, 2013.
that or i have read WWAYYYYYYY too many of you posts LOL kidding
That's okay. I know you say it with love ... right?
I haven't seen it in years, but yeah. It's here somewhere.
OMG p! You have no idea. Learning AT can be summarized as "Learning that you don't know how to walk. Over and over and over and over again."
I can't count the number of times I've restarted from the beginning. heh.
And sort of back on topic. Really, tango people. A lot of people here are deeply immersed in the culture and have been for years. But what if you were just a newb who wanted to do tango. So you googled tango and walked into a milonga... where you encountered a dance that doesn't look anything like the tango you envisioned, people speaking Spanish in a non-Spanish-speaking country, people being offended if you walk up to them and ask them to dance, or people being offended if you only dance one, people asking each other to dance by ESP, people NOT asking you to dance because they don't know you, people rhapsodizing about obscure orchestras from the 40s and 50s, etc.
Is it possible that any of this might come across as snotty to you?
*spat coffee on the screen*
But it really depends on whether you are referring to (graphing) the rate of progress required or the actual progress made.
People use the idea of something having "a steep learning curve" all the time and they are usually not talking about the rate of actual learning by an individual, but an innate characteristic of the subject material that defines the rate at which learning will need to occur.
Of course idioms are different across the pond, but in the US, when something has "a steep learning curve" the curve refers to the subject material and that it is "frontloaded". It doesn't refer to the progress people generally make. In fact, in a subject with a steep learning curve, people usually fall short of the curve because their actual learning curve is shallow.
See? Everybody gets to be right. High Fives all round!
Yep. That sounds pretty snotty.
Except I've never actually seen that scenario in real life. Like ever.
The main one of concern is people not dancing with you because they don't know you. It can happen. Which is why community building is important, attending classes with people, practicas, etc.
But seriously, why would you pay to go to a milonga without knowing what it was? And would you avoid talking to the organizer? Or asking questions of anyone there about tango? Or avoid going to the lesson before the milonga to meet a teacher and some other students?
The AT culture is more reserved than say, the swing culture, I'll give you that. But actively hostile is pushing it, I think.
Totally agreed. Just saying that it's easy to say a community is welcoming, if you know the secret handshake.
Oh all right. If we must...
Wouldn't people be offended in ANY dance if a person who didn't know the dance googled it, came in ignorant, and then expected people to dance with them?
I guess offended isn't the right word though. But surely they'd be all "Yeah, riiiiight. I'll dance with someone who just walked in out of curiosity without any lessons... Except NOT!"
Yeah. Sure. Nobody's saying you SHOULD dance with a perfect stranger. I'm just saying that there are a lot of customs that may be a bit foreign to someone who is trying to break into the scene.
Only from '78 onwards. 'The learning curve' was known in academic literature well before that, with time on X and achievement (or skill/functionality) on Y.
Someone decided to mix metaphors after that, and the rest is history.
Of course. I might come across as snotty, but then some people find anything that deviates from their cultural frame of reference 'snotty' without even a shred of effort at understanding. That often comes over as arrogant, even if it's not wilfully arrogant.
Of course. It is arrogant to seek to immerse yourself in a new culture and expect it to meet you on your terms. Absolutely.
What I am saying is that both sides (if there are sides) need to have empathy (not the right word, but I can't think of the right word.) How I choose to process other people's actions is inside my head. I can choose to read tango culture as snotty. There is PLENTY that I could read that way, if I want. Hence my post. But I can also choose to be open to new experiences and see what happens. AND people inside tango culture can make it easier or harder for me to do that. That's all I'm sayin.
I agree with whoever said they've encountered more snobbery online than they ever have in real life.
When I entered the Tango scene, I found it to be very welcoming. Someone here said a few months ago she knew someone who visited my community and didn't have a positive experience, but mine was positive from day one. I suppose it helped that I already knew some of the people from ballroom or WCS, plus I made an effort to overcome my social anxiety and talk to people and make friends. Of course, I attended classes and talked to the teachers and students, and that helped, too. When I broke the codigos, I was gently instructed on how things are done. I got up to speed quickly enough. I think it also helped my case that I learned quickly and was obviously putting in an effort to learn.
I do have my complaints, but that's mostly about many men's penchant for choosing the short skirts over quality followers. That happens in ballroom and WCS, too, but at least in those venues there is less stigma about women asking men to dance so I can still manage to have a good time.
The more I hang out with you online, tt, the more I like ya. We're going to have to meet up one of these days.
Comment below the video (actually text excerpt):
The first concept you will learn...is humiliation. You thought you could walk. Turn.
Balance on two legs. Tango is a journey where only the strongest survive at the altars of humiliation...
Our milonga tends to be the hunting ground of the Cougar...
Well, that's why it's called Argentine Tango.
Hehe! Silly man!
Separate names with a comma.