Student Challenges Prevalent in the Pro-am Structure

Do you think it's different for competing amateurs or professionals in this respect?

Yes I agree with fasc even going social dancing quickly turns into another practice session. Fun or no fun highly depends on our moods and situations not necessarily allocated time. Eg. After a big win everything feels fun, after a kick out off round one we tend to get a little depressed.

Our first teacher told us to enjoy the practice, the work, the struggle, because the competition only lasts a few minutes and you spend the majority of your time lessoning, practicing, and working thru things.

We LOVE the preparation, and we enjoy the results.

Social dance does not add skills to our competitive work, since leading a social dancer usually means lowering our sensitivities, speed, and quality, for the reasons so often mentioned in threads where folks talk about dancing with others that either do not take any coaching or more directly, refuse to abide by the conventions of partner dance (things like using their standing leg, finding their balance, creating a strong and undistorted frame and shape). Floor crafting at a social is so different than a competition floor, with social dancers randomly stopping and talking, unexpectedly opening up against the line of dance, and moving in that slow 'march of the foxtrot' way. You might find most competitive dancers saying that social dance actually worsens their movement and abilities.

Social dance is another animal entirely and should not be confused with competitive style dance... and what you see when you see 'serious' dancers doing their 'thing' on the floor is highly enjoyable to THEM (the breaking things down, working through arcane points, etc). Don't confuse your feelings with theirs. These folks relish the time they spend doing what they do, wherever they do it, just like a social dancer does - they just enjoy different aspects.

This is a really condescending view of social dance, bordering on offensive.

Yes, social and competitive are two different animals, and they require different skill-sets. Being able to partner with lots of different people at a variety of levels, while navigating a sometimes unpredictable floor, is a skill in and of itself and is no lesser of a skill than navigating a competition floor. Social dance also involves people skills and manners that are not as important in a competitive setting. Think of it as visiting another country (no matter which one you came from) – you need to respect the culture and customs of the land.

no offense meant - I am trying to make folks realize that the comp dancer in the social setting has differing needs and will appear alien to a social dancer who thinks that practicing or working out movement is the antithesis of a social setting.

For a competitive dancer, the 'fun' is found perhaps in a different place than a social dancer...

I do take offense at your comment that 'Social dance also involves people skills and manners that are not as important in a competitive setting'.

I wonder too. Is there a difference in the way couples prepare and experience dance when they are generally equally skilled i.e. in am/am or pro/pro partnerships versus the way a pro/am couple prepares? I would think there would be some differences.

Speaking from the am-am side of things, I think it depends on exactly what you mean. There are definite differences between ways couples prepare. The obvious one is the one that's been brought up in this thread: in my experience, am-am couples tend to spend noteably less time with solo practice than pro-am students do.

But I'm totally with Joe on this one. Based on my own experiences and what I've seen from the other am-am couples in the area, "very little time is actually spent on "dancing for fun"... for want of another word. Lessons are spent on teaching and correction, practice is spent on fixing and repeating." is just as true as it would be for a pro-am student. Even those who still go to socials tend to spend 95% of the time at the social dancing with their partner (amateurs who teach are an obvious exception here). While I don't count that as "practice" really, it's also not truly dancing for fun.

There seems to be a double standard (not just in this conversation, but in other threads as well). If I stepped onto a comp floor as a social dancer and did the stereotypical "social" things, e.g. not move quickly or big enough, possible LOD mishaps, etc., the other competitors would be annoyed with me and rightfully so. I would not be respecting the rules and expectations of the comp floor. Like drivers doing 45 mph in the left lane of the freeway.

However, when the tables are turned and it is comp dancers on a social floor, the sentiment seems to be that the social dancers should just deal with it and recognize the comp dancers as the superior dancers that they are, and be glad that they have graced our floor with their presence. When a comp dancer steps onto a social floor, what is necessary is not an inferior or reduced skill set, but a different one that recognizes the culture of the venue. Yes, things need to be toned down – the people around you are "friends", not "opponents". You are there to have a good time, not show off (though not all social dancers would agree). You don't drive the same on the freeway as you do through a small downtown, but that doesn't make one way better than the other, just appropriate to where you are.

While not intended to be offensive, I hope that you can empathize with me now that the shoe is on the other foot.

Allow me to elaborate on my comment: as an advanced social dancer, I spend a lot of time re-assuring newbies that they are doing fine (even if they are not) and determining how much constructive criticism is appropriate at such an early stage. Especially with newbies that I am not acquainted with (which is probably 90% of them). Some of them want all the help they can get in the 2 minutes they have with you, others are struggling with the "man is supposed to be in charge but woman is at way higher level than he is" dynamic and don't want that reinforced. I have to figure out quickly and accurately which camp he falls in. Like the cliché goes, you never get a second chance to make a first impression, so if a guy decides he's uncomfortable dancing with me the first time, that will likely be our last dance. In a comp setting, the partners know each other, they are used to each other, and there's already enough of a relationship to be straightforward with each other. Someone messes up, you know it and you move on – there are no feelings to salvage. And you're dancing with the same partner each time, not adjusting to a new lead/follow every 2-3 minutes.

This is not the only example of that point, but hopefully it is illustrative.

I know that you are speaking as a pro, but for myself as a student, I do not ever want to get to that point (which is why I laugh internally whenever people ask me when I'm going to be an instructor). I love dance in and of itself because moving to music brings me joy. I don't do it as a means to an end, I do it for its own sake. I guess that is the luxury of being an amateur social dancer.

Point taken and understood, but honestly, this depresses me. I can't imagine spending all the hours and money on something you don't even like to do for its own sake. No question the ancillary benefits are fun (team bonding, Gatorade, winning, etc) but at the end of the day, I've got to enjoy the thing itself.

so it seems there is a link between what inspires a person to dance in the first place, and whether they are more inclined to dance socially or competitively?

btw is there a thread on here that addresses "Why do you dance?" - or why do you love dance, something along those lines? I didn't get any hits on search...