Student Challenges Prevalent in the Pro-am Structure

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by latingal, Jul 17, 2012.

Page 17 of 18

  1. latingal Moderator

    Looking at another issue that I think is particularly challenging to some of us in Pro-am..."Owning your own dancing".

    I think unlike most amateur and pro couples, when we dance with a partner we are always being "taught", we never have the breathing space to simply practice and create our dancing within the partnership.

    I personally find it very difficult to bring my own personality to the dancing being in the pro-am structure for so many years. It's gotten to be such a habit to work on the mechanics of dancing in a highly technical way, I've found that I need a technical explanation of how to bring myself to my dancing -- rather ridiculous.... :confused:
    latingal, Nov 1, 2012
    #321
    sambagirl, debmc, GGinrhinestones and 1 other person like this.

  2. singndance Well-Known Member

    Very interesting....I recently had a session with a coach without my pro, and the coach said this exact thing to me..."you have to own your own dancing." She explained it was important to step up and take more responsibility for what I bring to the floor rather than "hang back" and wait for my pro to coax and cajole or strangle it out of me every performance. That hit me like a ton of bricks because I am not in any way, shape, or form his partner. I am his student, my dancing is so much lower than his, and I rely on his teaching me. But she told me I have to get over that and start looking at myself as more capable, more his partner, and really dancing.

    Unlike you, Latingal, I have no problem bringing my own personality to the floor. My problem is stepping up the technique to be more in sync with the personality so people don't think "what the heck is she doing?????" But when concentrating on the technique stamps out the personality.

    Sometimes I just want to forget about the whole competing thing and just enjoy dancing, for the fun of it. I'll own it, it just might not be what the judges want to see.
    singndance, Nov 1, 2012
    #322

  3. latingal Moderator

    LOL...sometimes easier said than done for some of us....

    Yea, I think a lot of it has to do with personality type in how easily we bring ourselves to the floor. I know with some people, like you singndance, this comes quite naturally! And I find it to be much easier for me to do in my am partnership. But as soon as I get back in to my pro-am partnership, I revert back to my head being crowded with thoughts and trying to make sure I accomplish everything we've worked on on the floor. It gets quite noisy in my head...LOL! It's something I'm learning to switch off now, but it hasn't come easily....
    latingal, Nov 1, 2012
    #323
    sambagirl likes this.

  4. JANATHOME Active Member

    Latingal
    Last week my pro repeated something to me that his coach said to him. Liked!

    He said that technique will create the feeling, while feeling alone will never create technique...
    JANATHOME, Nov 2, 2012
    #324
    cornutt, latingal, frotes and 2 others like this.

  5. fascination Site Moderator

    LG...I totally get this....not because I have trouble bringing my own personality to the floor (most of the time controlling it a tad is the larger issue)...but because I can let the disparity gap between my pro and I get in my head....but I am doing much better with that now....what helps me is to remember that this is not teacher-student in the ways in which we all experienced as young children...I remind myself often that this is not adult/child...I remind myself of my accomplishments inside and outside of dance.... and of my abilities to execute technically to a high enough degree that, while it may not be where I would like it to be, isn't something to be ashamed of it either...and that if my pro is (ashamed of it), then making it better is on both of us..... but, in the meantime I have earned my right to dance without fear or embarrassment (I can save that for when the video comes out)....my dad always taught me when golfing to never leave the ball short....I think the same applies in dancing....however, it is hard not to be cautious when you are dancing with someone whose skill is intimidating, even if unintentionally....
    fascination, Nov 2, 2012
    #325
    GGinrhinestones, latingal and canismajor41 like this.

  6. frotes Member

    Wow yes
    frotes, Nov 2, 2012
    #326

  7. sambagirl Member

    This is why I really cherished my am partnerships - I became a much better dancer, rather than just a good student, through them.

    Always looking for that balance, though - technique, connection (as a partner), performance....sigh.
    sambagirl, Nov 2, 2012
    #327
    Bailamosdance likes this.

  8. fascination Site Moderator

    I can see how that might be true as well, from just the minimal experience that I have had with a practice partner...which is why I, for one, am always happy to practice with someone who might not be at the level that I am at.... because it puts me in a different set of circumstances that still helps me to grow
    fascination, Nov 2, 2012
    #328
    Terpsichorean Clod likes this.

  9. sambagirl Member

    Yes! Sometimes when I see discussions of pro-am vs. am-am I am a bit distressed to see the emphasis on "I get to focus on my own dancing." Because in am-am partnerships I also had to focus on my own dancing, and if my am partner couldn't give me what my pro partners had, the onus was on me to find a way to still be able to produce.
    sambagirl, Nov 2, 2012
    #329
    Terpsichorean Clod and Bailamosdance like this.

  10. fascination Site Moderator

    it's not even a discussion I care to have...there are advantages and pitfalls to both....they are different
    fascination, Nov 2, 2012
    #330

  11. sambagirl Member

    Exactly my thought
    sambagirl, Nov 2, 2012
    #331

  12. JANATHOME Active Member

    Funny thing about a message board. One really never knows who they will inspire when you make a post.... I loved what you had to say Fasc... hope it helps Latingal too.
    JANATHOME, Nov 2, 2012
    #332

  13. fascination Site Moderator

    thanks jan
    fascination, Nov 2, 2012
    #333

  14. latingal Moderator

    It is such a interesting journey, isn't it?

    Made some breakthroughs the last couple of days on this subject as all the pieces began to fall in to place. Things that you have heard over and over, but couldn't really get to work because all the factors had not yet converged to make it possible.

    It's been a dizzying week, but I'm hoping that the changes that came to the fore today in my dancing are here for a long stay!

    Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and comments...always great to hear what others have found helpful in their situations!!
    latingal, Nov 2, 2012
    #334

  15. GGinrhinestones Well-Known Member

    I agreed with you here 100%. It IS challenging. And while we've covered it here - possibly even in this same thread - in the past, I think some of it comes down to personality, and a lot of it comes down to what Fasc said about reminding yourself that you have nothing to feel inferior about as a student just because you are a pro. On the other hand, part of the problem I always have in this arena is that, being pro-am, no matter how much I own MY dancing, I cannot own OUR dancing. As partner dancing, with the disparity between pro and am, it will always be more difficult (not impossible, I think, just more difficult) to create that ellusive "third" thing on the floor that separates two people dancing independently from a partnership truly working together and creating the whole. While I love pro-am and am in zero hurry to leave it, I do struggle with this sometimes. Owning my own dancing is important, of course, but doesn't do any dang good whatsoever if I'm dancing as an individual.
    GGinrhinestones, Nov 4, 2012
    #335
    Bailamosdance likes this.

  16. fascination Site Moderator

    I think this is surmountable....I mean, I obviously think my pro is astonishingly talented and I have to pinch myself on a regular basis that I am able to dance with him...that being said, he's a human being, and after almost 5 years I know enough about him to be able to see him not only as my teacher but also as a mere mortal ..and I think it is essential to being able to interact with him on the floor with the sort of interplay and integrity that is necessary to having it not look like a fear-based interaction....so, I have gotten to the place where I feel that it is simply another thing that has to happen in order for me to progress...and therefore, it will
    fascination, Nov 4, 2012
    #336
    GGinrhinestones likes this.

  17. danceronice Well-Known Member

    I don't really worry about that much--if I can dance up to them, they'll take care of their end. (That's a big if. It's usually more like they need to dial it down to me.) I just try to look like I'm enjoying myself.
    danceronice, Nov 4, 2012
    #337

  18. fascination Site Moderator

    I don't want my pro to have to dial it down...the degree to which he has to do that will always bother me
    fascination, Nov 4, 2012
    #338

  19. JANATHOME Active Member

    LOL, last week in dance lesson we were working on a movement where I should be driving the movement... I was so exhausted and I had the nerve to say to pro I am doing all the work... Good thing he is rather nice....so he smiles at me and said well, no, you are finally taking responsibility for your part of the partnership... I am simply not dancing your part anymore...
    JANATHOME, Nov 4, 2012
    #339
    Bailamosdance likes this.

  20. fascination Site Moderator

    right...there are many occasions when mine decides it is time to show me the level at which I am dancing versus the level at which he is dancing....I am usually very grateful for that...I want to feel where it needs to be...but, at the end of 4 lessons, I usually don't find it amusing :)
    fascination, Nov 4, 2012
    #340
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