Tango Vals

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by bordertangoman, May 8, 2009.

  1. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    I did expect much less and was surprised. I can find much more vals feeling in their dancing and connection to the music than in the dancing of their highly praised and influential teachers (DF forgive me). Over the years this vid is my aim.
  2. bafonso

    bafonso New Member

    Hi,

    What I most value in dancing vals is to imprint the "3/4 swing" and have a very fluid feeling to the dance. I don't know how to better put it into words. Understanding the lyrics helps to shape the dance.
  3. bafonso

    bafonso New Member

    Did you dance with him?
  4. Ampster

    Ampster Active Member

    A friend of mine has and she was a bit dissapointed. He rammed me on the dance floor once and he just kept going... :confused:

    ... but I digress, don't mind me.
  5. Temza

    Temza Member

    Fascinating. I mean the comments. For me, the first couple is the example of how NOT to dance vals. Overloaded choreography. Where is feeling, chemistry, romance?
    Tete and Sylvia, on the other hand, are like walking music. The ease, naturalness, simplicity, musicality - everything is right.
    Well, vive la difference, as they say...
  6. Angel HI

    Angel HI Active Member

    What this thread has proven is that what is good is not what a dancing individual does but what a viewing individual sees at a given moment. Further, what might be great today, might be not so goo tomorrow when one is in a different mood.

    It is interesting that some posters liked Tete/Sylvia b/c they looked less choreographed and simplistic, and others didn't like them b/c they were plain, uninspiring, and uninteresting...seemingly...less choreo'd and simplistic. Personally, I just don't like Tete all that much as a performer. As a dancer, sure, he is fine. BTM posted a YT link to a couple whom he liked a lot. I thought the guy slouched around and shuffled his feet...the latter being the ultimate sin in vals.

    My POV, vals is the smoothest dance on the planet. There is a definite tech to it that is different from tango y milonga, and it is extemely evident when danced even fairly. I thought it to be missing in many of the vids. I am a Julio y Corina fan, and though some of the aforementioned tech is evident here, some is lacking. But, I still believe it to be a good vals. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgJS7UYeBbE&feature=related
  7. bafonso

    bafonso New Member

    I found some of his interpretation exquisitely musical. No dancer can please everyone! I also enjoyed the #3 video.
  8. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    I think this is a case of beauty being in the eye of the beholder.
    I agree with this. My own experience of dancing vals when I have enjoyed it most is where the follower has a clear feel for the music and flows with long steps interspersed with quick - quick shorter steps- especially in the giro.

    Other followers seem to do the same steps as for AT and there is no change in the quality of their movement; others will alway do an ocho cortado if an ocho is led from the leaders right shoulder to in front of him. I get frustrated by this and give up trying to make it vals when I end up with people like this.
  9. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    I can't watch the video hear and now, but I know there is one vals performance by Julio y Cornia that I absolutely love. I wonder if it happens to be the one I'm thiking of. Anyhow.

    Agree about the smoothness and technique. IME, though, it's very very rare to find it. I don't claim to have it--glimpses, perhaps, from time to time, but that's about all.
  10. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    Tete and Sylvia


    It takes training to develop a dancer's eye and see what is lacking or present in someone's dancing. It has nothing to do with mood.

    Tete and Silvia always improvise in the moment. They never prepare a choreography. Tete doesn't dance that way. Even when he performed in a show in Europe, he improvised on stage.

    Tete is not a performer. He refers to himself as a dancer and a teacher of salon tango. He and Silvia have been working together since 1996. They are currently in Europe on a teaching tour. www.teteysilvia.com.ar

    I have danced with Tete on several occasions in Buenos Aires. He is a smooth dancer, but he lacks an embrace. When he drops his arms, a woman has to hold on for her life when he turns. Tete has made a name for himself. I prefer to dance with several milongueros before Tete. Tete needs lots of space to dance. There are foreign men who idolize him, but they haven't had the experience of dancing with Tete. It's one thing to see him dance and quite another to partner him. His large stomach makes it even more difficult to dance with him. His belly won't go away since it's due to a health condition.


    Tango Chamuyo: Milongas and Milongueros of Buenos Aires
    www.jantango.wordpress.com
  11. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

  12. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    I like the way he dances and sings. But, Hugo del Carril is also the voice of the Marcha Peronista !
  13. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    *shrug* I'm not so sure.

    A lack of advanced training does not eliminate the right to have opinions as to what is pleasing or not. Who's to say what, in any sort of art, will please one person compared to the next...or please one person from one point in time to another. So many factors can play into that sort of thing. A certain performance, or performer, may appeal to a viewer on a level neither truly understands.

    A trained eye can add complexity to appreciation, certainly. But that doesn't mean the opinions of one without a trained eye (or ear, or hand, or whatever) are less valid. There's no right way or wrong way to appreciate art.

    I respect the improvisational nature of his (non-)performance greatly. I pretty much always prefer improvised (or seemingly improvised) performances over obviously choreographed ones.

    I have no comment as to his technique or what it's like to dance with him. Only that, in that particular video, I felt his interpretation was lacking. *shrug*
  14. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    Teachers need a trained eye to point out problems. Everyone can form their own opinion about who or what they like or don't like. There is a difference when it comes to teaching. Problems occur in a partnership, and it requires a trained eye to find the solution.

    Tango is an improvised dance in dance salons. Its popularity has turned it into a mass of robots and copycats who are afraid to create in the moment and dance their personal style. Their best is compared to their teachers. Doing one's best is no longer considered good enough.

    Tango has become more about a performance to impress than a feeling to express between two. If it isn't flashy, we don't like it. There is something to be said for simplicity.
  15. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    True about needing training to be teaching. I didn't realize that was the topic of conversation; I thought we were discussing personal impressions of the various performances in the videos. *shrug*

    I don't think it's fair to say that it's become all about performance and impressing others. That certainly is not what I see. From some people, sure, but there are always a whole range of people. I see very little "performing" going on. It could be a factor of where I dance.

    I think the robot problem has less to do with people becoming automatons, and more to do with a lack of advanced dancers...people still working towards greatness. Or...perhaps more common...people getting to the point of being "good enough" and not bothering to continue improving beyond that point
  16. bafonso

    bafonso New Member

    I find that one interesting point to ponder about is that a lot of people dance tango because they want to become good at something.

    Then, obviously, something else will be missing from their dance...
  17. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    More performance tango than social tango in BsAs

    There are probably thousands of tango videos on YouTube. Most of them are performances (not necessarily on a stage) where the goal is to impress for applause rather than demonstrate good improvised dancing. Argentines are hired for foreign festivals because tango is business for organizers. The more recognizable the name, the more people register. Most dancers want to become good social dancers; unfortunately what they are being taught is choreography for exhibitions when the floor is empty. This is my personal impression of videos I have seen on YouTube.

    The number of dinner/tango show venues in Buenos Aires outnumber the milongas on any day of the week. There are more people watching a tango show on stage than there are dancing in the milongas. The Faena Hotel in Puerto Madero has a nightly dinner/tango show that will set you back $200USD per person. These venues are increasing in number because there is a demand for it. Tourists believe that what they are seeing is the way tango is danced in Buenos Aires. They are missing the real show that goes on in the milongas.
  18. bafonso

    bafonso New Member

    Social tango is more boring than show tango for people that don't dance. The real show for you is the social one but don't assume that it is for everyone, specially for non-dancers.

    Most people that I know can't appreciate the intricacies and subtleties of social dance and they like much more show tango. Everything has its place.
  19. jantango

    jantango Active Member


    People who don't know how to dance are impressed by anyone who knows how to dance. They are being fed "tango for export" in places located in Buenos Aires. People travel here to see tango and are given a glitzy show that bears no resemblance to the way it is danced. Most of these dinner/show venues have been around for only the past few years.

    The show Tango Argentino traveled the world. People saw stage tango and wanted to learn it. That was the first exposure for many to any form of tango. Performance is entertainment. Tango is a feeling which is danced.
  20. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    Is that why some Argentie tango teachers abroad teach things that are not social tango?

    Would you say that vals is a different feeling to tango? I would say that it is hence this thread.

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