Tango Vals

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by bordertangoman, May 8, 2009.

  1. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    Oh, they don't fall into that category, they are seasoned milongueros...
    the dancing is just poor IMO. I see better dancing than that in the uk.
     
    UKDancer likes this.
  2. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

    I don't have a problem criticize better dancer even so professionals.
    Some dancer untuitive to me, some have evolved to performers.
    I clearly separate professional tango dancers (PTD) from professional tango performers (PTP).

    Some PTD lost the enthusiasm I saw at their earlier stage, later they have perfect moves but are so boring.
    Their dancing seems artificial, there is no dancing enthusiasm or some kind of dancing chemistry.
    That kind of dancers I call PTP.
    Over time I find their technical qualities helpful but
    I'd rather see energy and soul than technique in the dancing. ;)

    I am free to say what I like and dislike. :cool:
     
    bordertangoman and jantango like this.
  3. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    After years of performances with perfect choreography to impress the audience, your comment comes as no surprise. Many are too busy copying professionals and never learn that tango is a feeling. You are judging what you see, but how do you judge a feeling? Those people return weekly for the feeling of tango.
     
    Mario7 likes this.
  4. jantango

    jantango Active Member

    I agree. It's boring because they dance as they rehearsed it, rather than improvised in the moment.

    They lack the essence of tango -- energy and soul as you put it -- in a routine that is practiced.
     
    Mario7 likes this.
  5. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    Thank you for making that clear. But if its a "feeling" why are you so dead against for the professional dancers, who you judge so harshly when you see them. I smell hypocrisy.

    My own view of the video is that its what I see quite often in the UK..people have no feeling for the music of vals, its impetous, its lyricism. If its a feeling why are you giving it as an example, anyway?
     
  6. LadyLeader

    LadyLeader Member

    I think this was more than a performance!
    I don't know the theme for that evening, for that dance but when I saw the end of this waltz I got a feeling of that the dance was for honoring her skill.

    He starts to applause directly after opening up the abrazo (she doesn't) and she is acting as being in an unusual situation. She is an experienced performer and looks relaxed when receiving the applauses after an ordinary balanced performance.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Uuf94lzN9hU#t=148s

    (I couldn't drop this because I posted the video and I think she has understanding how much decorations are ok in different situations. Here she was expected to put in as much as possibly.)
     
  7. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Yes, exactly what I meant. Any time a couple is given the entire floor, while everyone else sits down to watch, the couple knows they are expected to give something worth watching - to be entertaining.
     
  8. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I don't think anyone has argued that the decorations are "inappropriate" for the situation. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that I wasn't expecting it to follow social tango rules and I haven't heard the other people who didn't like it saying it should have been less "performancy".

    As a spectator, I don't like it. It has nothing to do with being appropriate or not.. it's an aesthetic reaction... which viewers of art get to have when they are being shown something.

    Even if she was "expected" for some reason to put in a whole lot of adornments, I doubt she would have put in more than she actually WANTED to. If she is supposed to be showing herself to best advantage for an event that celebrates HER, she wouldn't dance in a way that she feels does anything other than show herself at her best. So therefore, she probably feels that this level of embellishment looks really good. I just don't agree.
     
  9. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I can't tell if you were speaking specifically about a video on this thread, or in general. If you mean in general for performances, it suggests that no choreographed, well rehearsed dance can ever have energy and soul and will automatically be boring.

    I think Balanchine would disagree. (I know I do.)

    IME, it's usually choreographed pieces that are poorly rehearsed (not practiced enough) that are the most awkward in performance. Once the moves are down pat, then the performers can focus on showing something beyond only the movement.

    So IMO, a totally spontaneous dance and a well rehearsed one can both have soul and energy. It is when someone is dancing choreography that they have to think about too much that the life goes out of the dance.
     
    raindance likes this.
  10. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I have noticed this sometimes in couples who stay together as dance partners because they have established a reputation together, but they are no longer all that fond of one another. There is no connection or enthusiasm and they appear to be "going through the motions" because they really feel little or nothing for the person they are dancing the performance with.

    That progression of the relationship would be more likely to show later when they have been together for awhile than the earlier stage you prefer to see.
     
  11. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    It's just like in music ensembles; they rehearse like crazy 'til they have everything right except the music. Then, they just sound like robots. The same thing occurs in theatre and dance companies, as well as in business.

    In order to maintain a certain level of performance, there must be old members leaving as new ones replace them. This allows for the flow of new ideas into the organization while the leaving members takes with them knowledge that could be benefit to another organization.
     
  12. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

    Some have so sleek dancing that might be coreographed but that coreography is not so visible and for some are obivious.
    I noticed how is something put with a music. If it is "in the tune" I don't mind cause I learn new way of interpretation.
    Some elements can be usable for social dancing if properly adjusted so I find them very useful.
     
  13. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

    I noticed that that there are new breed (NB) of professionals that actually never learnt to dance AT.
    I heard that now AT become export product and a lot of younger dancers treat more AT as a sport than as a dance.
    They have countless hours of practicing perfect enrosque or some other complex elements on a spot but never learnt to use the space as performance medium.
    That include more posing and performing on place. They are not tango dancers.
    They do social tango fantasia as I would call it.
    Everything is fake.
     
    opendoor likes this.
  14. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Honestly border, I´m disappointed by the fact that you have re-animated the term tango vals. We cannot lecture those authors any more, but I actually thought that we agreed to discard this unfortunate word in this forum.
     
  15. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    We do a dance, and then we want to try to talk about it, even though words are not sufficient. Many of us, even you, know what these words signify. A tango vals, by any other name, would still turn as sweetly.

    Can you supply a reference for that, please?
     
  16. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Ok, AndaBien, I don´t want to be too missionary. But you will know that prophecy somehow tends to hypostatize and that concepts will reshape weeker characters. So only for educational purpose I would suggest rather the use of vals porteño, vals cruzado, or rioplatense. I do not prefer vals argentino any longer because throughout the land rather valses as chamamé or vals criolla seem to be specified by this term.

    Unfortunately I cannot. There are too many vals threads on DF. You haven´t been on board then, but border definitely was. Sorry!
     
  17. Mario7

    Mario7 Member

    how about just 'Vals' ? we have the context already
     
  18. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Vals is what the music is called in CDs.
     
  19. Subliminal

    Subliminal Well-Known Member

    I just say Vals or Argentine Waltz. :)

    Funny side note... My first teacher, born and raised in BsAs, dancing AT for 25+ years... Uses only English terms when teaching. She says Waltz for Vals, rock steps for cunitas, turn for giro, etc. I think she is proud of her English skills. Or maybe she thinks it sounds cooler in English, the same way many teachers here think it sounds cooler to use the Spanish name. :D
     
    Mladenac likes this.
  20. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    One dance school around here teaches "Argentine Milonga" - that doesn't sound right ...
     

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