Tango Argentino > Tango Vals

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by bordertangoman, May 8, 2009.

  1. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Yes, We have. But I´m also under way in different scenes. Outside our tank no one will understand "Let´s play a mazurka, then a vals". Among musicians 'vals' is an umbrella term.
  2. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    Is that a German perspective, given that there is no great pronunciation difference between Waltz & Vals? Here, where a W & V are distinctly different, vals will only usually mean one thing.
  3. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    UKdancer, I don´t want to believe that there actually is a here and there.
  4. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    IMO, what difference does it really make? I would say, none. As long as people clearly understand what you are referring to, it seems counter productive to argue about the correct terminology. Now if you say something and it's unclear or ambiguous, then it's worth discussing.

    My two cents.
  5. JohnEm

    JohnEm Well-Known Member

    I disagree (well I would, wouldn't I!)

    In Argentina there is no (need of) a qualifier.
    It's the Vals, sometimes Vals Cruzada but not Tango Vals as it isn't
    tango music, it's waltz music. They (and me) dance in the embrace
    (mainly unbroken) just the same but the rhythm and feel of the music
    results in a different flow of movement and a different feel from tango.

    Abroad we perhaps need a qualifier - after all Vals in Austria
    is Viennese, in the UK it's usually a (slow) waltz or maybe (rarely)
    Viennese. But if we are in tango circles we still need no qualifier,
    it's the Vals. Outside tango circles or to beginners the best solution
    remains Argentine Vals. It helps separate Vals from Tango and avoids
    the misinterpretation that you just carry on in a tango way regardless
    of the music being Vals.

    I'd love to see people being encouraged to actually respond
    to the very different motivation of Vals music.
    opendoor likes this.
  6. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    I only know of marzuka based on what I read in the old dance books I've looked at.

    I think I know what you mean, and I agree.
  7. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    That´s tank-dependent, too. The "folkies" in Europe love mazurkas, also the Québécois in your vicinity. And I think also among the waltzes of your own C&W-scenen some mazurkas will hide out. Not to speak of several waltzes in your slavic-american polka-communities.
  8. danceposa

    danceposa New Member

    SOmeone commented that some VAls phrases last 4 or 6 bars..... I am musically literate and I have examined most well known vals and they are all 8 bars long. Exactly the same as Viennese Waltz. Remember that many of the immigrants would have been musicians and versed in that taboo dance. It was considered very risque to dance in close embrace when the viennese waltz came on the scene. For those that find it difficult to dance giros in VAls then you should practise and learn the milonguero style of giro which works in a crowded milonga and suits vals perfectly allowing gwentle sacadas to be performed. See something with Jorge and Alexandria to see how its done. Also the media luna performed either in parallel or cross system works great on both sides. BUT not many leaders can do "stuff" on the closed side so PRACTISE IT! Also cadenas can be done in small spaces in a circular movements. Listen again and count out the 1s and you will find it generally phrases out at 8! Read joaqin Amenabar "Lets Dance" He is a orquestra bandoneon leader in Buenas Aires and his book and DVD is invaluable .
  9. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Oh, darn, here I was getting excited about someone actually writing about "dancing to the music" and the YouTube video I hit was so full of adornments and large movement by the woman...
    Still I get the point about having different parts, as do the instuments. (At least that's what I see there.)

    Still, welcome, danceposa!
    I see Clay Nelson (aka Mr Portland Tango Festivals) is onto the book, too.
  10. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Hi danceposa, welcome to DF. Think vals wasn´t tabooed in BsAs before the year 1900 any more. And by the way, also tango is still tabooed in a lot of middle class families in BsAs of today. And you´ve got a point there with the viennese waltz. It actually has got much more to do with the vals cruzado as with the tango itself. Vals developed between the influences of upper class viennese waltz (3/4) and downtown vals criolla (6/8). (Much the same as which tango that developed somewhere between military march music and habanera dancing.) And because the vals clearly has it´s origins in europe, the rioplatense composers stole a lot of our melodies. And one of the biggest thieves used to be Canaro. I once read a dissertation thesis on this subject.

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