Toe leads for every step for the man?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by LordBallroom, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    er... ?
    Isn't this a contradiction?
    dchester and twnkltoz like this.
  2. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    At last, something I think we will ALL agree on!
    twnkltoz likes this.
  3. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Something else to consider is that in apilado, the feet 'follow the center', so it's a near certainty that the "center" will be as on the beat as the foot placement.
  4. JohnEm

    JohnEm Member

    You've lost me Steve! Whatever you mean seems rather esoteric.
    Let's not unnecessarily complicate what is essentially a simple dance.
  5. LKSO

    LKSO Active Member

    I meant that every teacher disperses information about how to do something, specific or general.

    Yes, but now we aren't talking about just walking but about what the music is compelling us to do.
  6. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Too late.
  7. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Well, I think it's pretty simple, but that's just me having had numerous influences!

    Waaaayyyy too late.
    dchester likes this.
  8. Gssh

    Gssh Active Member

    "Talking about tango is like knitting about football" ;)

    But here we all are anyway....
  9. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Writing about music is like dancing about architecture. — Elvis Costello​
  10. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Well, a forum for tango is the only way we can be tango'ing on the job without our bosses noticing.;)

    The re-design of the forum should have included a fake spreadsheet option for the look of the screen.
    twnkltoz likes this.
  11. Gssh

    Gssh Active Member

  12. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Chest Lead
    For the man, this is the most commonly used lead while moving forwar in closed position inasmuch as the upper torso pushed forard to back the woman into the line of direction.
    Betty White's Ballroom Dancebook for Teachers 1962 page 23

    I see this over and over again in books on partner dancing.

    There’s an old saying in dance, “Foot follows Frame.” “Centering” also refers to the center of your frame. Move your center first—not shoulders, hip or foot.
    Skippy Blair's Dance Blog 2012

    When Robert Hauk, who has a reputation for being "milonguero style," kept trying to "correct" me because I was moving my "center" (aka center point of balance / torso, etc) first, and not my foot, I knew I would never take another lesson from him again. (This was years after I had taken lessons with him when I was first starting.)
  13. JohnEm

    JohnEm Member

    The English ballroom books I have definitely don't state that,
    the nearest they get is that contact between the couple is
    from the hips to the diaphragm. Alex Moore in particular warns
    against chest contact at one point. Although his book solved
    some teacher inspired but unanswered questions there is much
    to criticise in its approach. Of course the obvious simplistic answer
    is you cannot learn to dance exclusively from books.

    Or in tango foot follows body (or your centre). I've heard it said in tango
    to women but never to men and it should apply to both. Sadly I've never
    heard it said or taught in other dance teaching. It would make learning
    the skill of leading so much easier if that and all the physical posture
    and tone requirements were taught from the very first.
  14. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    Really? The concept is central to my teaching - and particularly for men, and not just in tango, but pretty much every style I'm involved in.

    Perhaps you have the wrong books? I don't particularly want to go off on a BR tangent, but you hardly have the background to criticise Moore. His Ballroom Dancing (first published in 1936) was a seminal work in its field, and it formed the basis of the 1948 Revised Technique, which has more-or-less survived to this day, without much change in the current standard texts of all the mainstream teaching societies. Chest contact would be a travesty in BR, but that just speaks to the point of contact: the principle of movement being led from the centre is absolutely fundamental to good BR dancing - it always was.
  15. JohnEm

    JohnEm Member

    I'm very pleased to see that, whether it be tango or ballroom.
    It seems to be rare though, my ballroom experience is obviously more limited
    than yours but I never came across such teaching from many different teachers.

    As far as ballroom is concerned I was responding in the context
    of Steve Pastor's post, not aiming to start a ballroom topic.
    However good ballroom is a physically connected partner dance.

    Apart from the fact that you don't know how good or experienced
    a dancer I am just as I don't know about you, the difference is that
    I have not appointed myself as a teacher.

    As a non-teacher, I don't see what you have contributed here. Without
    wishing to prolong this, all I can say is that I have the evidence of Alex
    Moore in the 1986 (ninth) edition of his original 1936 book. If that is the
    basis of Revised Technique no wonder much ballroom teaching is so dire.
    I could give examples starting with the forward walk through leading and
    following and onto other matters.

    As for me not having the background, you are attempting to belittle my opinion.
    I once amended a quickstep pattern being taught because it worked better
    with my partner. Teacher asked me why I wasn't dancing what she taught
    and in response to my explanation she said "I'm teaching from the book"!
    Poor us, we were just trying to dance. And that's what I still do whether
    it's in a book of rules or not.
  16. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    I don't dance AT...but, as a rule, in ballroom we are taught that the body is first when moving forward, and the leg is first when moving backward, which seems fairly logical for most types of dance
    Subliminal and bordertangoman like this.
  17. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    I'm sure you thought it did, but hey, let's not go there!
  18. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    this is a good example of dancing with a flat foot

  19. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Yes, it's mostly flat-footed. I thought we were talking about straight forward walking (maybe not), which he does little of. I noticed a few times when he did reach out going forward his heel landed first.
  20. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

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