Top Couples Dancing both WDSF and WDC

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by DanceMentor, May 16, 2013.

  1. ajiboyet

    ajiboyet Well-Known Member

    I think the Melbourne video was completely in sync...Emanuel Valeri was singing the lyrics to Fever, and his lips were forming the words on time.

    BTW If you have a lot of videos that are out of sync, you might like to try getting VLC. It's a media player that lets you delay (or un-delay, i.e. move-forward) audio alone by 50 millisecond steps (that's a twentieth of a second)...I find it very useful a lot of the time.

    ETA: It's completely free.
     
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  2. Warren J. Dew

    Warren J. Dew Well-Known Member

    The musicality issue at the beginning of the waltz wasn't an issue of timing, anyway; it was an issue of style.
     
  3. llamasarefuzzy

    llamasarefuzzy Well-Known Member


    I would disagree with this statement. While it is certainly a different way of interpreting the music than the traditional English school, I don't see it as a disconnect. It feels more like a progression of the basic technique, not unlike other sports such as skating or gymnastics which have gotten progressively harder at the top levels as time progressed.
     
  4. dlliba10

    dlliba10 Well-Known Member

    But musically speaking, the piano legato of the music seems at stark odds with the forte staccato(-ish) of the movement. I agree, it's a progression of the basic technique, very difficult, and to be admired, but that doesn't make it musical.
     
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  5. llamasarefuzzy

    llamasarefuzzy Well-Known Member

    This is referring to the Melbourne video, yes?
    If so, I didn't think ti looked at all staccato. Most of the dancers seemed to hit several big shapes/lines, but the connecting movements seemed pretty "roll-y" and fluid to me. They certainly moved very powerfully, but I thought they did a wonderful job of maintaining the momentum, thus avoiding the stop/go that I associate with staccato movement.
     
  6. dlliba10

    dlliba10 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, staccato's not the right term, but it's more aggressive than the song seems to call for, to my ear and eye. Again, just my personal opinion -- I could very well be wrong.
     
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  7. Warren J. Dew

    Warren J. Dew Well-Known Member

    Skating and gymnastics haven't gotten harder. In fact, the focus on flashy figures in figure skating has resulted in a neglect and erosion of the quality of the actual skating.

    You don't see gymnasts who can swing to the top of the uneven bars and balance there at full length upside down any more, either, though I'll grant that what today's gymnasts do instead is not just junky flash.
     
  8. llamasarefuzzy

    llamasarefuzzy Well-Known Member


    Skating has gotten more athletic, and IMO, harder- then number of rotations/jump expected has increased.Doing more rotations per jump will always be harder. Similarly, gymnastics has become more acrobatic and athletic than it was in the 70s (maybe not harder, I'm not qualified to judge if one style versus the other is more difficult)
     
  9. ajiboyet

    ajiboyet Well-Known Member

    The reason why, IMO, dance is an art. Everybody is right. And everybody is wrong.
     
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  10. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member


    Yes, and many will argue plenty of skaters have excellent skating quality (this is allegedly why Patrick Chan can fall on his butt multiple times out of jumps and still beat clean landings.) Now, skating has also gotten uglier as encouraging more positions per spin and more rotations tends to mean a lot of skaters cram as many difficult changes of edge and direction and footwork into programs as they can to rack up points for difficulty without any real regard to music or interpretation (Michelle Kwan's famous spiral wouldn't be worth much because it's not as "difficult" as multiple changes of edge and position.) Meanwhile the PCS scores are basically used to hold people up or down--you can pretty much guess the PCS for top skaters before they skate. However, that is what using the IJS encourages, points over interpretation, so WDSF really ought to think carefully if that's what they want competitive dance to look like.
     
  11. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    they do......so it too can be in the olympics
     
  12. llamasarefuzzy

    llamasarefuzzy Well-Known Member


    IMO, I think its great that the WDSF is pursuing a more athletic style of dance, while the WDC is staying closer to the traditional English style. I think that it would be rather boring, and a loss to the dance community, if both federations had the same style. This way, there is a spot for both, and since there is no right or wrong way, everybody can have a little of everything!
    That being said, of course WDSF has to be careful to still place emphasis on clean dancing- whether or not it is "athletic." I don't think any of the couples on the WDSF floor look bad- like a skater falling on a jump, but that is just my opinion.
     
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  13. dbk

    dbk Well-Known Member

    I agree completely. I like having a few different flavors of the same dance... there are strengths in both, and as a dancer I can pick and choose who I like and what I imitate... and what I don't.
     
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  14. danceronice

    danceronice Well-Known Member


    The only reason IJS exists in skating was it was $peedy Cinquanta's way of punting dealing with cheating judges--make them anonymous and create a superficially "objective" system that doesn't actually eliminate holding skaters up or down, it just makes it impossible to catch who's doing it. The IOC didn't care about the specifics or making skating "more athletic", they just said "deal with the collusion and cheating" (after the pairs/dance 2002 medal-swapping, and even there the problem was not so much that it happened, but rather it came out.)

    And they're not going to let ballroom in anyway. They're working on streamlining the Olympics, spots that involve a lot of athletes and officials only get in if they can prove they have a HUGE ticket/audience draw. I mean, they dumped wrestling, which is kind of the ur-Olympic sport but not especially popular.
     
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  15. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    the pan asian games a few year ago sold more tickets for ballroom than any sport except soccer
     
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  16. llamasarefuzzy

    llamasarefuzzy Well-Known Member

    That is so cool!
     
  17. ajiboyet

    ajiboyet Well-Known Member

    I think the time will come when everyone will just live and let live, or dance and let dance in this case. And we'll just have two federations with two styles - neither better or worse. And everyone would be 110% free to choose whatever they want.
     
  18. Mr 4 styles

    Mr 4 styles Well-Known Member

    from your lips to .......somebodys ears
     
  19. Warren J. Dew

    Warren J. Dew Well-Known Member

    I've found a comparison video that may illustrate this point. Again, the WDSF championships, at the beginning of the waltz at 13:45:



    And here, another waltz to a slow, legato piece of music, and a similar rotational figure, but with a styling that fits the music by making the dancing look easy, at 0:30:

     
  20. nikkitta

    nikkitta Well-Known Member

    Tribble floats! :p
     
    Larinda McRaven, mindputtee and stash like this.

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