Ballroom Dance > Top Teacher Awards

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by pygmalion, May 9, 2004.

  1. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Which Atlanta comp?

    And yes, I believe the price can be quite a bit higher if there's only one student competing. Multiple students often share the cost of the teacher's expenses.
  2. Laura

    Laura New Member

    Yes and no. The last time I was with a group discussing this question, they brought up the point that tickets to a sporting event cost at least that much, and tickets to the ballet or opera or other dance performance cost a heck of a lot more.

    However, I would hazard a guess that more people would be willing to pay $80-$125 for a ticket to a performance of an acclaimed professional ballet company than $25 to watch a bunch of syllabus-level (no offense, I'm one too) Pro/Am competitors do their thing. The truth is, I don't think that the ticket prices are set in a way to cultivate spectators at Pro/Am syllabus events. I don't even think there's actually any interest on the part of the organizers in doing's not like the competitors will quit entering competitions just because their friends don't feel like spending $25 to come watch them.
  3. tasche

    tasche New Member

    Well I was thinking about the spectator ticket prices the other day and was thinking how reasonable they are when you think about it. The other day I dropped into watch the sunday session of a local comp and was thinking that $20 was very reasonable for a 4-5 hr session when you compare it to other popular entertainment such as a movie ($10 a pop $14 if I go to the really fancy one) and you dont end up spending on the consession stand.

    Reminds me a little of when I was organizing a college fashion show and someone wanted to price tickets @ $5 bc they thought no-one would pay more to go see their kids, friends etc. We end up pricing them at $15 and end up overselling the venue ( lucky not everyone turned up ) If there nt willing tp pay a mere $20 then they dont love you :wink:
  4. DanceAm

    DanceAm New Member

    Not always, sometimes they just pocket the extra money.

    I have danced pro/am once with my current instructor. There is no fee to the studio so we settled on just one rate.

    We agreed to 150 per day.
    I would cover her expense of Lodging, meals, any comp costs for event passes, entrance fees, heat fees etc.
    Basically I paid her 50 more a day then she made going to comps at her franchise studio and she got her own room. I would have provided transportation but the comp was not far away and she decided to drive herself. If we danced a lot of heats, there may have been a discussion on how much per dance, but I chose the events I wanted to compete in and just paid the organizers fees. From comparisons at another studio, it was about 2000 less than the next cheapest package locally.

    She never had students like us before and if she was not getting what she felt she deserved, we would have negotiated further. If she normally taught 10 lessons a day and wanted me to make up for the that shortfall, I would have considered that fair, but I probably wouldn't have danced pro/am. The way it actually worked out, we were making all the arrangements, all she had to do was show up for the heats. What a role reversal that was.
  5. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Sounds like your pro is one of the good ones. :D

    The pro I referred to earlier, who is so honest and fair, made similar arrangements. Since the comp was on a workday for him, he calculated his hourly rate for the day, then divided that among the students competing. He gave out price sheets with successively lower costs as more students competed. He also picked local and shorter duration comps to promote, and explained the process every step of the way.

    There definitely are good, fair pros out there. It's a shame not everyone operates that way. *shrug* That's what I like about DF. People get to ask questions and compare notes in a relatively non-threatening environment. Now, I bet a bunch of pro-am dancers are going to go back to their studios and start asking their pros probing questions. LOL! My job is done. :wink: :lol:
  6. mamboqueen

    mamboqueen Well-Known Member

    I don't think you can compare syllabus-level pro-am comps with say, a Yankees vs. Red Sox game (which I would pay a tremendous amount to see, as long as I wasn't in the bleachers at Fenway!). For me to perform 10 dances at 1.5 minutes a piece doesn't come close to being worth that price. I can see it for the higher-level dancers, but if the organizers would really like to see dancesport catch on, they should make it more affordable for spectators.

    Oh, and I should mention, my family is pretty cheap. They can squeeze $10 out over the course of five or six yard sales!

  7. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Personally, I think the comp organizers should make the tickets cheap or free, after the competitors' seats have been filled. A full ballroom makes better morale for everyone. And there've been empty seats at every comp I've ever attended. Just sell the empty seats for cheap. That could be a win-win. 8)
  8. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    You know, DanceAm, I don't want people to read this thread and walk away thinking they can do pro-am for free. It sounds to me like your pro was pricing herself out of business, if she was running her own studio. If she was doing some pro-am on the side for extra cash, that's one thing. But if she was trying to run a business and pay for everything from electricity to dance floor rent and business insurance, I don't see how she managed to price your comp so low. There are standard formulae for pricing in a service business, and it doesn't sound like she used them. (Maybe she was using a penetration pricing strategy -- pricing your comp low, while planning to raise the price of subsequent comps. That's a pretty standard approach to pricing. *shrug* Who knows?)

    Also, about the cost of heats. I suspect that the cost varies quite a bit, with the smaller comps being least expensive and the big comps costing the most per heat. So, even if you assume a uniform markup percentage (back to those pricing formulae I hated so much in managerial accounting class LOL,) the price of heats could vary quite a bit. (Why do the big comps cost more? I don't know, although I suspect the higher costs of promotion and advertising, the bigger purses, the pro shows, etc. figure into it.) (Edit: Cost = what the organizer charges per heat. Price=What the teacher/studio charges per heat, after their markup is added)

    I don't want people to get the impression that they can go back to their pros and get a cheapie pro/am package. I think you were lucky to negotiate a price so low. It can't hurt for people to ask questions, but they also need to be realistic about the fact that teaching dance is a business that has to stay afloat.
  9. DanceAm

    DanceAm New Member

    I see your point. Studio costs for her are non-existant, she is an independant. The point I was actually trying to make is that she was paid more, provided better lodging then when she worked for a studio. The studio we belong to has no authority to determine her pricing, they just charge her a floor fee when she uses the floor. The studio has no employees, they are more of a landlord and the floor fee is rent.

    This type of studio also has less of a team environment. The studio doesn't close down so that everyone goes to compete. In fact, only two teachers went to Heritage, all the others taught their normal lessons. The studio was still open for business and lessons were being taught.
  10. virginiadancegirl

    virginiadancegirl New Member

    Where are you? I was at Heritage (as an observer only) but will hopefully be competing there next year.....
  11. CC

    CC Member


    OK - I want to join a studio like DanceAm. It sounds like it was a win-win for both. I have also heard of independent teachers that basically don't charge anything above their expenses but they keep whatever scholarship $$ you may win. I think this is very rare, however. So in summary, from my experience, Franchise studios are the most expensive and the least likely to negotiate. Independent studios are less (my experience has been about 1/3-1/2 the cost) and independent teachers that rent floor space are the least expensive. No doubt there are exceptions.
  12. Genesius Redux

    Genesius Redux New Member

    Hi, CC, and welcome to df. 8)

    You'll actually find quite a few threads on independent vs. franchise-owned studios. The topic gets some people a little passionate! :lol:

    I'm at an indie studio like the one DanceAm describes--in fact, that's the same studio where Ben and Shalene, whom he mentions, teach. And yes the lessons tend to be cheaper than they are at franchise studios--and more is going directly to your teacher, so you feel better about it.

    The whole top teacher/top student thing has always seemed a little silly to me. I've seen students seriously irate because they had entered so many heats hoping to get top student--and then they didn't. For me, it's all about dancing! :lol:
  13. CC

    CC Member

    Hi Genesius and thank-you for the welcome.

    I agree about the top student/top teacher thing as well - at least I don't need to know which teacher got a big fat check (not that they don't deserve it - I think they do - maybe they should give that out at the pro party they usually have) - the top student award is good in theory - but by sheer number of entries seems silly. I like the idea of top student based on a required number of entries and the best average score being the basis for the award. Then again, if they did away with it all together it wouldn't bother me one bit - in fact, I never think about it until they call the awards out and then only if I'm paying attention - many times at that point, I'm a little burnt out - comps tend to run late and after being in the ballroom all day, I zone out a bit by the end. :kitty:
  14. tasche

    tasche New Member

    But how exactly in theory would an average "top student" work. What if you ahd say 3 students that won all their heats? How would that work?
  15. mamboqueen

    mamboqueen Well-Known Member

    the one with the best dress, of course!
  16. Purr

    Purr Well-Known Member

    That works for me. 8)
  17. CC

    CC Member

    Best dress works for me! Seriously tho, I believe some comps give out top Bronze, silver (not sure about gold) which would reduce the chances of a tie(s) but not eliminate them. In theory, the point system/number of entries could have ties as well. :p
  18. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Eh. If an occasional tie happens, that's okay by me. It would just be nice and refreshing to see students receive awards for technical merit, not just dollars spent on multitudes of heats.
  19. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    they do, it is called 1st place, 2nd place, 3rd place.... :D :wink:
  20. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

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