Tango Argentino > Understanding codigos

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Dave Bailey, Aug 12, 2008.

  1. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Agree wholeheartedly. You gotta name things something. It makes referring to "you know...that thing you do where he goes like *this* and she does *this* and then they..." so much easier. And you gotta pick A language to do it in. There's already perfectly good terminology out there--translating it for the sake of translating it just seems silly. Even without knowing what the words mean, anyone who dances can speak about an ocho cortado or volcada to another person and it's understood. Really, it just makes things easier.

    Besides, the whole needing to rename things just to fit it into "your" language reminds me too much of work. (Yes, it is all about me.) Every time they roll out a new database systems for accessing the SAME DATA, they've got to come up with all kinds of new names. And, god knows, it would have been too easy to use the same naming conventions across all of them. So, now, there's a bajillion (it's a technical term) systems, with the same data, all with slightly different names. I can't count the number of times I've been wondering, "Why isn't my @$%$^!@-ing query working???," only to find out (after searching through a huge and horridly organized and presented data dictionary) that it's because THIS database uses underscores instead of dashes. ...and that's when I walk outside and smoke a cigarette before I break something...
  2. jennyisdancing

    jennyisdancing Active Member

    Personally I enjoy learning new languages. What is cool about foreign dance terms is that, at least for those words, you learn them as a native speaker would. That is, you don't go through the process of thinking the words in English first, then mentally translating them. You just think "volcada" and it means something to you.

    That said, there are some foreign dance terms that clearly describe the move, and so it's nice to hear an English definition when they are first taught. To know that "ocho" means a figure "eight" does help provide a mental illustration.

    But I would be opposed to translating all terms into English as a total substitution for the original language. Tango comes from a culture, and the language is part of that. I enjoy learning about and appreciating other cultures as part of my dance experience.
  3. jhpark

    jhpark Member

    everyone should be using underscores. anyone who puts dashes inside a database should be shot. thus saith i, the master of... well, whatever. ;)

    i love encountering databases in, like, dutch. or something like that...

    but back to tango. frankly, for some things i prefer the english word. when it's shorter. like, blocks instead of.... what, pasada? and turn instead of molinete? or giro? turn is only one syllable. ;)

    i agree with others, the thank you bit and cortinas, and stuff like that is convenient to learn. don't think a milonga has to be organized into tandas, but i like it better that way. and i would rather dance to alternative music than to neo or nuevo tango (i was just in a coffeeshop where they were playing nuevo tango for an our, and finally i had to ask them to play blues music instead. the music is so repetitive and simple.. blues has some complexity to it at least, which i miss with the nuevo stuff)

    and peaches... i agree, it really is all about you ;)
  4. Heather2007

    Heather2007 New Member

    :cheers: Excellent.:cheers:

    The most disgusting behaviour I witnessed with a friend on Tuesday night at a milonga was "a deliberate attempt to maim". A very small dancefloor held in a basement winebar means not much room to exercise flamboyant legwork. One particular couple were dancing inside the rules (that is: not much room then dance small) and thus temporarily holding up the queue behind them. Woman behind her with her partner were forced for a wee minute to dance on the spot. Frustrated by this, she raised her leg as if to do a boleo, made aim for the back of the other woman's calf, lifted her knee and then violently jabbed foot backwards and into the woman in front's leg. The victim doubled over in pain and limped off the dancefloor. The perpetrator and her lead carried on dancing. My friend and I just glared at each other - gobsmacked.
  5. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    This thread has gotten very weird, but....

    OMG, how true! I visited a community once where I was told that they tried very hard to not be like BR communities...nobbish, cliquish, back-stabbing, pretentious, and gossipy. They, then, began trashing everyone who did not prefer close embrace as not being purists....like them. *just smiled and nodded*

    Agreed. I understand why it isn't though. It's because we associate more with our own culture rather than anothers', even if the other is more correct. The irony is that this is what the discussion was about...enforcing codigos that have nothing to do with one's culture simply because it adds some sort of savoir-faire to one's egosystem. Oooh, someone's double standard is showing.

    Actually, from the parisian on board, it more says "As is necessary", or used idiomatically by us as "As it should be".
    Commie foes....that's funny, though.

    The most intelligent post in a while. I have no issue with using the proper names, at all. My issue, as, I believe, is Light Sleepers', is the overusage of terminologies simply for the sake of being impressive, and/or the multitude of insignificant names given to the same movement because of the non-Argentine's need (particularly Amers') to clasify everything to a minutiae.
  6. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Well, some of the last posts have been :)

    There aren't many "named moves" in AT compared to other dances, yes, I agree.

    I guess what I'm saying is that I think people use the Spanish terms too much in English situations, simply to add mystique to the dance. And I think that extra work for translation makes it harder when you're starting out.

    "Pivot" is easier to remember than "ocho" for a beginner, for example.
  7. Heather2007

    Heather2007 New Member

    A Pivot is not an Ocho. A Pivot is more akin to what could be regarded as a "swivvel". That is, turning the body but feet remains collected (ankle to ankle). It then becomes an Ocho when the foot is extended. Followed by a Pivot followed by an Ocho and so on..:cool:
  8. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    1. Unnecessary.

    2. Unnecessary.

    3. International Law that needs to be better appreciated or enforced.

    4. Perhaps not as strange as intimidating. I, too, like the miradita/cabeco. I just don't beleive that it should be mandated in a culture where i otherwise might not be the norm.

    5. See previous post.
  9. Heather2007

    Heather2007 New Member

    Shame! There really is no other language that exercises more- "pretentious, moi?" than "Franglais" - ha, ha, ha. I tried showing off with my limited Hebrew - it wasn't the same. Franglais Rules!!:ladiesma:
  10. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Perfect example of why terms should be well defined and used appropriately according to one's culture. We can't even have a standardization within the same language. :confused: You see, when I was in BsAs, I was told that an ocho is translated more correctly to swivel than to an actual figure 8. In jazz, and commonly in BR, "pivot" is a very misused term. A swivel is a rotation of the foot. A pivot is a "backward" rotation done on the spot w/o a change in foot/leg position (hence the "2" sepaerate parts of the BR pivot step). A forward swivel danced with the feet/ankles together is an ocho (even in jazz). A forward swivel danced with the feet apart/extended is a fan...except when danced after a pivot when it is called a "pivot action" :doh:.
  11. Heather2007

    Heather2007 New Member

    Ha, ha, ha - reminds me of my mother and father. Former brought up on the New Testament the latter brought up on the Torah - the arguments when I was growing up - who's right/who's wrong. With my sister's voice echoing in the background "they're both right yet they're er.. contradicting each other".

    In my teaching I tend to use English words (but with a "but in Spanish its called a..." tossed in at the end). Currently teaching tango to a couple who are contemporary jazz performers - so (being an ex jazz dancer/teacher myself) ALL of my explanations are au jazzesque. That way we're speaking in the same language. And I get the familiar "aww right". Rather than having to hear "what was that word again.." Which of course just eats into the time. Whatever is easier on the day...horses for courses and all that jazz.;)
  12. Angel HI

    Angel HI Well-Known Member

    Agreed. Imagine my growing up.....

    French pere says, " you drink from...un verre"
    Amer mere says, "No, no...it's a glass"
    British elementary school says, "Oh Heavens, say glahss" :)

    It was rough.
  13. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    Awright, you picky bird you :p

    OK, then, why not say "caminar" instead of "walk", huh? How dare people use English terms like walking when there's a perfectly good Spanish equivalent available? :D
  14. Dave Bailey

    Dave Bailey New Member

    And "cross" - there's another one. Obviously we should all use "Cruzada" instead.

    I'm on a roll...
  15. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    maybe we should return to the days when French was th court language - even or especially in Scotland.

    I apologise for my ignorance of the common meaning of the phrase "Comme Il Faut" rather than my rather literal translation with the wrong tense to boot.

    Zoot Allures!

    My reputation as a Master of malapropism remains uncaramelised
  16. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    I think the argentinians have come across this, too. I think it was Naveira who broke with all these terms and reduced them to cross forward and backwards (i.e. ochos). For side-stepping he uses to open, because this step does not go through the neutral position.

  17. Light Sleeper

    Light Sleeper New Member

  18. Light Sleeper

    Light Sleeper New Member

    Yes, I missed Lily's post first time round. Excellent. Hence my 'renaming milongas 'ango socials' comment and that 'they' (the haute show offs) might get the 'hint'... part of my dismay/rant was over just this kind of stuff and how, as AT is a bit of a minority social dance, it kind of has the danger of giving AT a bad name.

    As did the assault that you just described. I seriously believe the victim should've phoned the police and that woman should've been charged with assault. What a disgrace.
  19. Light Sleeper

    Light Sleeper New Member

    Ah yes, Bubbelah, :) but English has a lot of wholesale imports of french words anyway, 'repartee' is one that springs to mind... tonnes more. The fun thing about Serge is not so much 'franglais' but clever word play.

    I just realised I pepper emails with 'n'est ce pas?' Oh no, I'm exhibiting symptoms of pretentiousness *runs away and makes a cup of tea and a Tunnock's teacake* I only use those phrases with people I know understand them. Actually, I've been using 'Oy Vey' a lot lately - after reading one of your posts!

    I love some of the Yiddish words and phrases - they're so rude!!
  20. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    Isn't that a gancho response ( ie knee jerk reaction?)

    like the poor chap who slapped his out of control teenage daughter and now has a criminal record and can no longer work with children or young people.

    Disproportionate in other words?

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