Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Dave Bailey, Aug 12, 2008.
Yeah that would be my ideal - English words but explain the Spanish.
'au jazzesque' - like it!
No. Don't think you can compare the two. In fact I was thinking of stupid cases like that: ie some numpty copper takes the side of some anti social yob... therefore get them doing something laudable like arresting somebody who attacked a total stranger and it was unprovoked. Also, a slap is not comparable with a dig in the shin with a sharp heel.
And 'Giro' refers to such a broad set of movements ('turns') why not just say 'turn'. I think that in some cases, such as 'giro' ... it comes to mean a specific move or figure in student's minds.
For ages I the move that is called a molinete was in fact called a giro.
I always get colgada and volcada mixed up but I can't think of any translation that would serve as a mnemonic for me. I just keep thinking 'Volcano' spilling outwards ... which more describes the colgada. Hey ho, I'll just follow the leader and not worry about the name!
Though I've just found a 'tango term' that seems multilingual:
Suave — Smooth, steady and gentle, soft, stylish. A major objective in tango.
I like this one!
If there are any Round the Horne fans out there, how about we start using Polari**???- that could be fun!!!
"Never use your thews to lead. Wrap your lally round his lally. Now, let's work on everyone's tango mince. Let's have a varda at your colgada. Now put your plate ajax to his, right, bona!!"
** Polari is g*y British slang used mainly in the 1960s: Various influences, backchat, Italian, Romany, Yiddish and various types of slang.
I know you meant this as a joke, but to me it illustrates exactly why I think it's more functional to just use the accepted Spanish terms for things. I think it'd be more problematic once everyone started going around and coming up with their own vernacular for this stuff. What a nightmare.
I just don't see what the big deal is with not having the words be in your own tongue. They're just terms. Music uses Italian terms, ballet uses French terms, not a big deal. Ballroom uses--well, god only knows what the hell they're using. Ostensibly it's English, but I have yet to figure out how "telemark" or "feather" or any number of other standard terms bear any relation to the dance going on. *shrug* But they're the generally known and accepted terms, so you just learn them and go with them.
A very attractive suit with a long jacket!
Sorry, couldn't resist
Quite! What some put up with in a milonga, they certainly would not in another public setting.
Truly - had I been the victim of such an assault it would be me ending up in handcuffs. Deffo!
Yeah, I was going to mention that as an alternative to getting the scuffers in... I would certainly have felt like pasting the witch... whether I'd have the guts to do it is another matter.... plus I'd have to 'take it outside' as I'd hate to be as anti social as her. I have an abhorrence of violence but that doesn't mean I don't have the urge when provoked - oy vey, do I!!
"zoot allures" is a Zappa song & Album
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvYdhiJvoCg and for free Zappa plays a tango live in Finland!
My first teacher referred to the Giro as a "Grapevine". I like "Grapevine". Reminds me of sweaty gym studios, steamed mirrors, headbands and loud music.
Volcada - think Volcano. As lava (ash) pouring (leaning) forth (forward). I'm a toddler when it comes rememgering new things so I always resort to word association as a reminder.
And, and, and..
Colgada = Can't Go There. You stop your partner with a little force from going anyway (going off balance). You see. I'm a toddler.
"Pasting" - Ha, ha, ha.
Think: Russia v Georgia. A Retaliation to a Provocation:bkick:
I think along the way here I've been attributed as arguing for something that I never did argue for.
I had a rant: polemic is at times useful and certainly can be fun to do and to read.
There were however some serious points in there to do with elitism, social dance, usage of words. I don't believe I ever said to ditch all Spanish terminology.
1) There are lots of pretentious people attracted to tango. I would argue more so than other social dances.
2) Sometimes those people overcomplicate language... either because they want to be authentic OR because they deliberately want to obfuscate and create a mystique to make them part of an elite group. I was talking more about the latter people.
3) I don't think I have a particular denseness when it comes to names... and my friend who did ballroom for 20 years and has done tango for 10, recently said she couldn't think what an ''ocho cortado" was. I think Dave made the point that at the beginning it helps students process new things to have them explained in English.
4) My feeling is that it's up to the individual teacher but I would prefer Heather's approach: explain both Spanish and English and work with which the student finds easier. As long as it is explained... some folk remember more than others.
5) Some tango terms could mean many things and I don't think that it helps students to use labels to the nth degree.
6) Labels don't get used as much once one gets more experienced in tango. I mean, a teacher is unlikely to say to a group of students.... 'show me a colgada' without at first reminding and demonstrating. Therefore, my main beef isn't about language per se but more how it is used (see points 1 and 2)
7) I do stick by my argument for calling Milongas something else - either 'social' 'ball' 'dance'... my personal opinion.
8) Do most people who tango thing it's a good thing and would like it if more people were encouraged to do it? If so, then cutting out the elitist pretentions would help (note: I do not mean avoid teaching people Spanish words) I'll admit I've done no market resarch on 'what would encourage you to take up the tango?' but I'll wager that the more mystique created around something, the less down to earth you make it - the less chance you have of getting new people who might be shy interested in giving it a try.
At the end of the day, tango started out as 'the people's dance'... I merely observed that these days at times it gets to be 'the pretentious people's dance'.
I also made a plea for bringing back all social dancing... as it was in the old days and how the formalisation of ballroom put the kybosh on that. I believe it would be nice to have mixed events with social 'ballroom' dances, salsa, bachata, tango, milonga etc etc
Bring dancin' back to the people!
I heard it through the Grapevine da da da da!
Volcada pouring forth - yeah, that's good - pouring forth will def help me to think of 'forth - forward'.
Can't go there!
Yeah, good word innit?! Pasted her across the wall!
The victim shoulda called out Pullo and Vorenus (from HBO's Rome)... they'da sorted her out good n proper!
"I'll pull that mumpin' Comme il faut off your foot and stick it where the sun don't shine, my honey!"
hm... if you try to place it in a sentence, it would be more something like "properly" if you talk about something and "respectable" when using it to describe a person.
But as I said, I'm not going to argue!
Currently watching (the brill) House of Saddam (again a BBC/HBO partnership). Reminds me of a kind of Sopranos but with an Islamic twist. So yeah, I'd deffo do one of those things on her - Bedouin stylie
Well- From my own expierience, it has been the opposite to this. I'm not talking about pretentiousness and labelling either and I do know what you mean, you can always tell when a person likes to throw their labels and names about to impres someone, but that would and does happen in every dance (and I do dance, or have danced many of them).
In tango terms, my most recent expierence is that as you get more advanced, the LESS likely the teachers are to baby you through an explaination.
They say something like "we need to work on your technique now so we are going to work on this giro to the right/left with sacadas stopping completely balanced at every step - no arms allowed (short demo)..." or something like that...they generally don't spend a lot of time in the class once they give a quick show of what they are doing to go in to agonizing detail of exactly what it is. By that time, you are expected to know some terminology associated with the dance and how it works.
And I do think most teachers worth their salt (at least the ones I've had) tend to say things in both languages so people get the idea (though what I tend to do myself is just associate the thing with an image when I learn it so it can be called whatever it is regardless of language of origin). I've never even had the most pretentious of teachers refer to walking as caminada. The few times it was, the teachers primary language was Spanish so that's was fine...or may be he went "paso paso paso..." I just can't remember...
Heh. Reminds me of my first teacher, who's English wasn't so good at the time. He kept trying to translate "tango de salon" or salon style. I knew what he meant just fine. But he'd translate it to "room style," which ended up being said "roomah style." It was so adorable.
'show me the colgada of Alfredo Garcia'
Yes, that's my mnemonic also - but I think of the shape of a volcano (pyramid) to remind me that the volcada is the "lean in" one, and the colgada is the other one
Of course, calling it a "lean in / out" would be too simple...
Separate names with a comma.