Ballroom Dance > Underturning in Viennese Waltz

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by Tenehill, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. Chris Stratton

    Chris Stratton New Member

    Contracheck, it might be worth trying to find a coach who's willing to occasionally lead you in a lesson for a minute so that you get the idea of the feeling that it will be your task as leader to create for your partner.
  2. reb

    reb Active Member

    common theme to both threads and both lessons - its all about our own responsibility to serve the other person . . .
  3. pruthe

    pruthe Member


    I think you should try to take these experiences (lessons) and make a positive out of it. Goal is to be sensitive to others in what you say and do. I don't think you intend to offend. Perhaps in culture you grew up in it would not be so. But it is important to try and understand how you may be perceived by others in this culture.

    Hope this helps.
  4. contracheck

    contracheck New Member

    Thanks, but I have problem with your proposal. It is my stern and famous Italian coach who originally told us in no uncertain terms that the man should, if necessary, pull or lift partner so that the couple can eventually dance properly and win. If we tolerate errors they will never be corrected. I happen to agree with his teaching and philosophy. I usually stay away from whiners and complainers. This coach is a disciplinarian as well as a perfectionist. In his lecture, you can hear needle drop. He is also famous for switching partners often.
  5. and123

    and123 Well-Known Member

    and this is a good thing?:confused:
  6. pruthe

    pruthe Member

    Probably because no one wanted to dance with him. Please read (or re-read) my previous post.
  7. Josh

    Josh Active Member

    Are you equating whiners with followers who don't move properly? I just don't get what you're trying to say. If a follower doesn't move properly and you have to pull or lift her, does that mean that she's a complainer? :confused: Putting up with whiners has nothing to do with the actual act of dancing something properly. Sorry, I'm just so confused.
  8. waltzgirl

    waltzgirl Active Member

    But lifting and pulling does nothing to teach the lady how to dance--or the man to lead her properly (since the lady failing to do her part may as easily be a fault of the lead). So how do they ever learn to dance without pulling? It certainly won't work in competition.

    No wonder! Who would want to dance with him?
  9. fascination

    fascination Site Moderator Staff Member

    ya know cc...learning something is often humiliating but one can learn the art of taking it with grace and making it the best day of your life:friend:...none of us is as smart as we think...and all of us have gotten our comeuppance from time to shame in that
  10. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    ANY Pro. ( ? ) who does that in front of other students, needs to examine his own conduct !!
  11. Joe

    Joe Well-Known Member

    No, you should not push or pull your partner when dancing underturned turns in Viennese Waltz...
  12. pruthe

    pruthe Member

    Tony Dovolani is a top pro in U.S. He's also a regular in Dancing with the Stars TV series. In my reading of cc's post, he was not necessarily "scolded". If cc's comments were made in front of the group, I think something should have been said in response. If made in a calm and non-confrontational way, I think it would be appropriate.
  13. Chris Stratton

    Chris Stratton New Member

    From watching a lot of couples with chronic pushing and pulling problems, I think it often comes down to one or two basic causes:

    1) They don't yet understand the directions of movement relative to each other needed to accomplish the material, probably because they've been given something too complex for their current development.

    2) One or more likely both of them do not have sufficient foot strength to have a reserve of stability (especially in risen positions) which they could use to accomodate their partner's needs and nearly unavoidable slight errors. When there's no spring in the feet, there's no give or compassion in the partnering and the slightest errors immediately become serious.
  14. contracheck

    contracheck New Member

    To be fair with him, I believe that it is he who switches partners and not the otherway around. As far as I can determine, there is no lack of women who throw their bodies at his feet, for he is also a good looking man.
  15. contracheck

    contracheck New Member

    I can't fault Mr. Dovolani. The problem started when this lady reported my pulling and lifting to him and the rest of the workshop participants turned into a mob and joined her shouting all kinds of accusatory remarks at me, some laughing uncontrollably. This lady should not have brought out this purely private issue between she and I in a public forum. At any rate, she was so victorious over me, I think that the workshop was her happiest moment in her life. I tried to offer an explanation (i.e., "if she doesn't want to dance properly, why does she dance at all?), but it was drowned into the booing noise the rest of the people was making, no one could hear it.
  16. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

  17. contracheck

    contracheck New Member

    So, you agree with Mr. D that men are GPS? Mr. D actually made a startling statement that I had never heard before. He said that men should let the women lead, then all problems would disappear. Isn't this a deviation from conventional wisdom? Remember what my the other coach said: In dancing, women are not followers but participants. Now, Mr. D says, in effect, that women are the leaders and men are followers.
  18. contracheck

    contracheck New Member

  19. atk

    atk Active Member

    Being called out in the middle of the class, in front of everyone, can be embarrassing. That's perfectly normal.

    You might consider that this was a point of technique that you didn't know, and that you hadn't previously learned. One could only be marked a fool if they know the technique, know that the results one wishes will only be obtained by applying the technique, and even have the ability to apply the technique, then refuse even try to apply it. You might take this opportunity to focus on what Tony taught you, rather than (the perfectly normal) focusing on feeling foolish.

    Besides, there may have been other leaders who do exactly the same thing, and benefited from hearing it told to you. From things I've read on DF, it seems that pushing/pulling is not an uncommon occurrence.
  20. atk

    atk Active Member

    Are you sure none of the other men were pushing/pulling/lifting? Most often, when I've seen someone mention a particular problem with a partner, it's really a problem with multiple partners. If you were the fifth person to push/pull/lift, she may have decided it was valuable enough to enough people in the room to bring it up.

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