Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by samina, Jul 30, 2007.
140 GBP for a season ticket for all events (does not include Thursday and Sunday or a reserved seat)
haha latingal, I dno't even rememeber which business/accounting classes I took in all. Only remember acct 1 and 2 because the prof was crazy, and spent a lot less time talking about accounting rather than telling crzy stories of her life.
I know i've heard this all somewhere before though. Maybe watching the price is right.
A reserved seat for Blackpool 2008 is $252 Pounds Sterling. Again, this does not include Thursday or Sunday. I tend to watch everything at Blackpool, sometimes including morning practices, and I pay for Thursday & Sunday. But for people who eat at actual restaurants and go check out the vendors, let's just say 8 hours a day for Friday, Saturday, Monday, Tuesday, Wed, Thurs, and Friday - that's 7*8=56 hours. 252/56 = 4.50 pounds or about $9 per hour.
USDC on Saturday was 6:30 to around midnight (can't remember when it ended; plus the extremely well-planned and very touching memorial service for Vincent Bulger took over half an hour). Let's just say 5 hours for $70 = $14/hour.
The year I visited the Italian Open in Cervia it was only €13/day -- easily the cheapest I've ever heard of to see Franco/Oksana, Ricardo/Joanne, Bryan/Carmen and the like dance.
As DFL has pointed out, however, no matter the level of the dancing, the atmosphere of such events is much more of an athletic one than artistic/theater. Not a criticism one way or the other, but a point that the use of sports halls, etc., does change the atmosphere of the event.
An earlier poster, tendancer I think, said that the priority of comp organizers is to turn a profit, not increase the rate of participation in dancesport. I think that's an important point to keep in mind, and I say this not from a negative or critical bent. It is the nature of things.
There are also a couple of other factors at play here:
Increasing attendance does not in itself constitute a priority goal for quite a number of other people involved in dancing (as competitors, attendees, pro-am students, etc.), if it comes at the expense of other factors (comfort, quality of the venue, etc.). Quality of dancing is another important consideration. I am very interested in dancing and do spend money to travel to comps, as a spectator. But the fact that a local comp is available and the evening tickets are $20 would not necessarily entice me to go. I WOULD go if I thought the quality of dancing is worth my time (not just the money).
So there are different demographics involved in dancing and comps. One group of likely attendees which needs to be added to the list is dancers who travel specifically to attend good comps. You'd be surprised how many there are (I'm one of them). However, just because I am at Orlanda (for example), doesn't mean I will go to the evening session of any one given day. I'd look at the program and, if there's nothing interesting, I'll skip it and go out to dinner with friends (which might end up costing me more than the price of the ticket would have been, so it's not just money).
Comp organizers focus on their likely demographics, and wisely so, plus the other fixed factors (judging costs, for example, in a small local comp vs. a large international event), and so on. Also, given the already present clientele (pro-am participants, mostly well-to-do females over 35, with their friends and families), it may not even be wise for comp organizers to try to increase the numbers of attendees by adding a whole different group of demographics into the mix. It works at Ohio, where ladies in evening gowns and gents in tuxes sit in the same LARGE space as college kids in sneakers and shorts, but it won't work in most other places.
Let me give you an example.
At Orlando, a couple who seem to be in their late teens/early twenties sat next to me, in the front rows, in what was clearly not their seats. Anyway. Their total demeanor was very, very different from most everyone I could see clearly from where I sat: the man was in frayed shorts and slippers, in one of the World Open events. They talked constantly, usually in a flippant tone, about the dancers and the audience and what have you. They moved about quite a bit, and so on. People around them visibly breathed a sigh of relief, smiled at each other and nodded their heads when someone else finally claimed those seats and "evicted" the peasants.
Let me be careful here.
I myself often show up in evening events in sneakers, just because comfort to me is a major factor and I may not have time to return to my room and change for the evening session. And it bothers me when organizers specifically say "no jeans allowed in evening sessions" (they didn't, at Orlando, and that was a relief). But the "demeanor" (for lack of a better word) of different groups (differentiated by age, income level, years of commitment to dancesport, etc.) is going to affect the atmosphere of any given event. I suspect that the major demographic group in pro-am events will not be very comfortable with an increasing attendance of a younger, less affluent audience, as long as events continue to be held in relatively small hotel ballrooms. And many of them will not be terribly comfortable if events are held in large gymnasiums, either.
So, perhaps it's just that there are different demographics involved in dancing, and they may not necessarily all be comfortable in the same space.
There is a wrong premise in much of this discussion, if we limit it to USDC. This event is usually huge and generally evening events are sold out. The last couple of years were an exception because of peculiar circumstances relating to that particular event. Actually, this year there was a very healthy attendance considering that it's a totally new venue in a different city. The ballroom is huge, and on Sat. night it was nearly packed. I don't think we need to worry about what the USDC needs to do to increase evening attendance. I really believe next year will be a sell-out, now that the event has regained its stability.
But many of the points made here are worthy if we're dicussing attendance at danceport comps in the US in general.
Some excellent points to think about there Jools.
Wow,jeez, I guess as "one of the peasants" I'm now glad that I didn't go to Orlando.
What an eye opener. Not that I was dying to see pro-am events with "older affluent females" anyway.
No wonder that I hear "ballroom dancing is for old people" sentiment so often.
let's not be divisive...I don't think the problem with the "peasants" (jools word, not mine) was their attire, but rather their lack of consideration in their conduct...as for older ladies dancing, while I don't expect anyone to pay good money to watch me dance i had the pleasure of watching the gold latin pro/am and at least two of those in the A2 placed third or above and were smokin' hot and over 40...I think it is rather dangerous to paint all students and all pro- ammers over 30 with the same brush...the conversation here has taken an ugly turn....this isn't about who deserves and doesn't deserve consideration...EVERYBODY deserves consideration, but different organizers are in different postitions with regard to which ones can have priority with them...and it is a bit unfair (IMO) to assume that anyone here has enough of the particulars to really assess whether or not organizers are missing a critical opportunity or are being prudent...it is fair to assume that some could be more reasonable...it is also likely that some are loosing their pocketbooks trying...regardless of where any of us stand...let's try not to say insulting things...just b/c pro-ammers over 40 are a huge chunk of the bill doesn't mean that they are hostile to a younger/student crowd...and just b/c some might not be what you deem worthy of watching doesn't merit a blanket assessment of mediocre dancing
So let me change the subject:
Did anyone happen to notice whether JT was wearing nude leather shoes, rather than satin? Last time I saw her, it looked to me like that was what she was wearing and I liked the matte look, considering that for my next pair of shoes.
must confess i was too enthralled with what the rest of her body was doing to pay her feet a bit of notice
I wasn't at USBC but I own a pair of leather standard shoes and they are probably the least comfortable pair of dance shoes I've ever owned. I've owned them for about 2 years now and the leather still hasn't broken in.
It's possible that it's the shoe itself but I think it's the leather that makes the shoes so stiff. I would not buy them again.
(Yes, I like the look too,unfortunately.)
speaking as one over-40 pro-am-er... i love the younger crowd and have experienced more uncouthness on the part of older "more affluent" attendees than younger ones. age has nuttin' to do with it, IMO.
i agree with fasc... everyone deserves consideration...
Samina, it's great to hear something like this!
Does anyone know how to find pictures from this event...I know that someone was taking pictures of us... But, can't find anything on where they would be. one of the guys got my email to send me some. Anyone know where to look?
Why nobody posted any comments about the international standard? you talked about everything else rather than the standard. Any thoughts, observations, impressions?
Two thoughts come to mind gtech. First, perhaps the DF members most interested in Standard weren't there to comment? Second, structurally the Standard was the most boring event of this championship. Please note, I am not saying that the dancing was in any way boring (it wasn't, indeed it was fantastic!) -- only that it held "true to form" more than anything else. Going in there was some question about the finalists in Latin, for instance, but the title was wide open in both American styles going into the night. This added an energy level to these two events that the International style events didn't come close to matching. I actually felt quite bad for the US National Standard finalists who produced some excellent dancing, but to a room where half the audience had left after the Rhythm results were announced.
like I said...I save money by not going to te evening stuff
Some photos from Smooth now posted if the DF photo album... (Standard and Latin still to come)
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