was curious as to why fencing is a gold rumba move

Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by famfam, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. famfam

    famfam Member

    it seems like something so simple that it could be pre-bronze (or bronze perhaps since you could enter it from a fan)

    is there some kind of difficulty/technique in it that I don't seem to get? it just seems like a very easy/straightforward move to me.
     
  2. DanceMentor

    DanceMentor Administrator

    I think sometimes there are moves that could be placed elsewhere on the syllabus. For example, a Closed Telemark to me is easier than a Double Reverse Spin turn, but that is the way they have it devised. While I have small differences, overall I have a lot of respect especially for the International syllabus.
     
  3. smidra86

    smidra86 Active Member

    I think also some steps just seem easier to us because of the training we had learning the basics. So maybe a step that is easy now and seems like it belongs in an easier level, might actually be much more difficult to accomplish when you are first at the lower level.
     
  4. anametuer

    anametuer Member

    Ditto.

    Also at the advanced level learning any figures are not difficult, but there are new challenges to tackle, to improvise on various elements,... right?
     
  5. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    I think it is. It could very easily be a bronze level figure.
     
  6. syncopationator

    syncopationator Active Member

    the figure itself is not complex, but the execution requires the posture, control and styling that most beginners will not have developed.
     
  7. smidra86

    smidra86 Active Member

    welcome back syncopationator.
     
  8. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    You could say the same thing about any figure, though. Fencing is nothing special - a Basic Movement is far more difficult.
     
  9. famfam

    famfam Member

    i agree with this. I'd argue that a fan or an alemana are FAR FAR harder than fencing, and I see no reason that it would be considered a top difficulty move in terms of technique and/or connection.
     
  10. katherinejh

    katherinejh Member

    The syllabus isn't necessarily in order of difficulty.
     
  11. famfam

    famfam Member

    then what's the point of levels?

    My impression is that the syllabus builds up through the levels by incorporating moves that require a skill set built up through doing the previous moves in the syllabus. That is to say, the figures tend to require more advanced technical skill as you proceed. That's the only way that makes sense to me. You expect bronze dancers to be able to do a certain set of things, then as they go up to silver, you give them more challenging things to do, and gold has the most difficult moves. What sense would it make to do it in random order of difficulty?
     
  12. smidra86

    smidra86 Active Member

    Its not really random order of difficulty. I tell any lower level dancer who wishes to move up a level, as I've told you this multiple times, I don't see a reason to throw in special more difficult moves in a new level. If you are going to compete, and you decide to do silver instead of bronze, I don't see any reason why you would HAVE to put in silver steps. I would stick with the steps I do best, and do my bronze stuff. If you ever watch the gold cha I do, none of it is gold level, it is a completely silver routine, and it happened to be the dance I did best in and got the highest marks.

    My point is, that even though the step is in a higher level of difficulty, if you can dance it well when you get to that level, you will do well in the end. Therefore, if you want to throw in a gold move when you have gold routines, why not throw in a step that is easy to do, and that you can do well?
     
  13. famfam

    famfam Member

    well, i do agree with that it's best to not add moves simply because it's a higher level, however, the moves should be a higher level for as reason in my opinion...that's the whole point of the structure. There isn't a logical reason to have something that's objectively easier and less complicated for both roles at a higher difficulty.

    Of course in the end, step difficulty isn't the primary motivator for choosing moves, but it seems silly to me.
     
  14. Larinda McRaven

    Larinda McRaven Site Moderator Staff Member

    :waves hello:
     
  15. debmc

    debmc Well-Known Member

    It can be hard to analyze syllabus steps and why they are put where. If I am not mistaken, I think the chase is in bronze rhythm chacha, but in gold latin chacha. I guess whomever was deciding on what should go where had their own views of dance difficulty. I too find the fan/alemana to be more of an advanced move although it is in bronze.
     
  16. Meagan

    Meagan Active Member

    I personally think its cause its hard to make it look good or appropriate :p
     
  17. famfam

    famfam Member

    I'd say it would takes years longer to do a fan well...

    But yeah, chase is silver in international, and bronze in american, but from what I understand the chase in latin technically includes foot changes so it's done on the same foot, which is why it would be more difficult.

    But fencing still baffles me.
     
  18. Meagan

    Meagan Active Member

    Yes but a lot of things build off of the fan or technique you learn from the fan. As far I as I'm concerned you don't "need" any fencing so yet another good enough reason for it to be in gold :)
     
  19. famfam

    famfam Member

    you also don't need shoulder to shoulder, i wouldn't make that gold though. wouldn't say they are too far apart in difficulty either, yet one is pre-bronze and the other is gold.

    doesnt make sense
     
  20. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member


    Theres a simple answer. one has to go back to the time when dances were being formulated .

    Basic foundational figures were established by committee, and at that time period, many of todays variations in both Standard and latin, did not exist . As new variations were added,and as one famous coach said, " They had to put them somewhere ! ". Medal tests/ Exams, became the format for the "levels " .

    Remember, up and until the late 40s, there was no Jive, no Cha Cha and Rumba was square . In addition, pretty much all the music ( waltz apart ) was written in 2/4.

    With the advent of 4/4, it provided new ideas that were gradually adapted to the dances , as appropriate .

    As to " fan ".. one has to take into account that, the modern day Rumba was formulated on 2 Amer. style dances.. Mambo and Bolero .
    Both have CBL to an open position in their basic structure, hence in all probability, their inclusion at the lower level .
     

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