What’s WRONG with salsa?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by SDsalsaguy, Mar 24, 2004.

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  1. RumbaRumbera

    RumbaRumbera New Member

    No need to be offended. I'm sure you'll agree that the same club can be very different, depending on the night. Please see my subsequent post:

    "I should have clarified this. The problem with the list are the NIGHTS not the places."
  2. RumbaRumbera

    RumbaRumbera New Member


    NOT anonymous. My name is Catalina de la Chusma.

    "YOUR" scene. Excuse me, I forgot.:kissme:
  3. Kali Ma

    Kali Ma New Member

    Hello, everyone!

    I haven't been on this thingy in a donkey's years, but this dragged me right outta my hidey hole:

    My flabber is pretty well gasted. I have seldom seen such a perfect nexus of varied prejudices expressed on this board. This post, and several of those with which this poster followed up, is/are filled with a sort of Greatest Hits list of nasty "-isms". This poster should be grateful to have avoided banning on the basis of the highlighted fragment alone. That's a perfect -ism quadrafecta going on, right there (racism/sexism/ageism/classism). I would think that it would be possible to state an opinion or clarify a position without reaching for the nearest big bag of negative stereotypes and hackneyed clichés, but I would apparently be very much mistaken.

    My admiration and respect go to the moderators of this board for allowing even the author of such a repugnant statement to defend, retract or elucidate said as s/he sees fit. The author of this post should be thanking them rather than pretending that they have refused anyone their rights (free speech guarantees, by the way, have no bearing whatsoever on a privately run forum; this poster and everyone else here is present and speaks at the discretion of the site owner/s. Classic trolling-in-the-guise-of-justice-crusading, that.)

    Another HUGE chunk of admiration for the grace exhibited by the posters to whom this person--in my estimation--was needlessly and boundlessly rude; you have class...in abundance!

    <thread drift over>
    <lurk mode reactivated>
  4. sweavo

    sweavo New Member

    I must be pretty much un-offendable then. All I saw was an emotional rant against the bigoted attitude of the stuck-in-adolescence guys!

    For my part, I think it's more productive to look for what someone's trying to say rather than get annoyed at how they say it!
  5. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    I think both are true sweavo. Name calling (as well as personal attacks, profanity, and the like) are prohibited by the DF guidelines, and have no place on DF. And, as Kali Ma well notes, this is a private domain, so arguments about freedom of expression, etc., are almost always used as excuses by those who want to ignore the community standards. That said, you are right that it is almost always more productive to recognize and respond to meaning rather than form... but, as various linguistic and cultural studies materials all show, the dichotomy is never so clear; that form conveys meaning too. Just think of tone of voice when talking with a baby. Obviously not the same, but how one says something here does matter and does have consequences.
  6. thespina13

    thespina13 New Member

    So what ARE the consequences here? "...Asian or other girl..."?? Come on now. I understand the frustration with certain attitudes and trends on the dance floor but come on now. We're going to let racism go unchecked here?
  7. sweavo

    sweavo New Member

    Certainly not wishing to criticize the mods, who I think do a great job.

    I haven't read the whole thread since at a glance it's mostly personal attack and counter attack and not related to dance. It takes one person to cause offense, but it takes more than one to make a flamewar.


    * looks for a way to tenuously tie this back in to "what's wrong with salsa?" *
  8. thespina13

    thespina13 New Member

    LoL.. sweavo, that's a mighty task you've laid before yourself. The title of the post is so negative that it immediately puts any poster either on the offense or defense.

    Personally, I feel that dancers in general are pretty crazy people! When you get that many crazies in one room you're bound to have some ego or drama or whatever. I also think salsa has gotten to the point where it's not a new dance anymore, and so people are continually looking for the bigger, better, more more more thing, which gets their egos truly involved. I wasn't around for the huge salsa boom of latter decades, so I don't know if previous dancing generations were better or worse, attitude-wise... but think about the 100-metre sprint in the Olympics. The standard has gotten so inhumanly high that look what happens to the runners now. In the pursuit of record-breaking, we have drug, sponsorship, fan and ego issues. Is it different on the social dance floor? Is DANCING and FUN the focus anymore or is it something different? I don' tknow. This is all just a theory to get discussion going again.
  9. sweavo

    sweavo New Member

    Still failing to see what's racist about ranting against people who prefer Asians...
  10. samina

    samina Well-Known Member

    i think rumbera was just referring to a "type"... pointing out that other people are partial to certain backgrounds or types isn't racist...

    i know the "type" rumbera was trying to convey, even if it was awkwardly described... and there are definitely male dancers who are particularly drawn to that. in fact, there's one at one of the studios i go to who is well-known for only selecting asian ladies to dance with...
  11. sweavo

    sweavo New Member

    And yet you managed it in two short paragraphs!

    I absolutely agree that dancer are nutters. I mean, passionate people. I even think that the act of dancing in some way fosters passionate behavior, i.e. skipping the thinking part between feeling and acting.

    I've certainly felt over the last couple of years a lot of the joy leaking out of salsa for me. But it's impossible for me to say whether that's internal or external to me, and if external, whether it's part of salsa per se, my local scene, or other things in my life. It is because I'm teaching now? Because I'm not finding the time to improve my repertoire alongside planning and running classes? Because I'm not single? Because of getting drawn into salsa politics? Because of my ex trying to ex-communicate me? Ho hum. Good times still happen. I guess the important thing is to keep a perspective. Try explaining the on1/on2 war to a non-salsa person. The look on their face will show you how important or otherwise all these issues are...
  12. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    hmmm...I wonder what my prejudices are...let's see last Tuesday....I danced with the one black skinned person in the room, couple hispanics, the one Asian female in the room, quite a few white skinned people...but then there were many of them... I think I do a fairly decent job. ;-)

    My eye definitely will catch ladies who are dressed to attract attention, so often they will get dances. But, I also will choose people if I notice that their friend is being asked a lot and they aren't. Perhaps by each of us changing our behavior we can improve the salsa scene.

    I do avoid the rueda practices on Tuesday as they drive me crazy, and dancing with "grossed-me-out lady". The music choice often is atrocious as new music isn't played often....I will tend to dance more with new people as I want to experience how they react to my craziness...

    Then there is the lack of dance manners with space hogging/wild moves....

    It would be nice to quietly get rid of what often are the few rotten apples that we have no hopes of improving. That often can change a dance scene dramatically.
  13. tangotime

    tangotime Well-Known Member

    Thesp---I was around in those times ( am still around, I guess ).

    No internet , just the good old phone. The " scene" was as friendly, and where everyone seemed to admire each others skills, little as they may have been. It was always about encouragement ( I speak from personal exp. )
  14. MacMoto

    MacMoto Active Member

    Because the rant was also aimed at "trashy young Asian girls with limited dancing skills dressed like hookers chasing men and thereby feeding their inflated ego (okay not only Asian girls, but)"? Maybe that's not what Rumbera meant, but it did sound like that...
  15. tj

    tj New Member

    Sigh. Ok, this thread has gone on long enough. I agree it's time to shut it down.

    There's entirely too many DF veterans who don't like some of the posts as well as the general tone of the thread. Rather than continuing to let it fester back to the top, I'm locking it.
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