What’s WRONG with salsa?

Discussion in 'Salsa' started by SDsalsaguy, Mar 24, 2004.

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  1. tsb

    tsb Well-Known Member

    Re: What's wrong w/ salsa?

    i've followed this thread and a lot of what i've read echoes why i left the salsa scene. i think more attention should be paid to input that comes from dancers outside the salsa world or at least from people who dance more than just salsa. but part of the problem with the salsa world is an apparent tunnel vision that seems to be a salsaholic characteristic.
     
  2. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    Re: What's wrong w/ salsa?

    How do we tell a fanatic that his message has been skewed by evil minds? How do we tell someone that because his righteous life has given him fruit it doesn’t mean that a less righteous life hasn’t given someone else as much fruit? How do we tell, he supreme of all dancers, that his way isn’t beneficial? After all his place in the realms of salsa very well allows him to feel and act supreme over others. How do we break a salsa democracy that strives in a world where the many search for the “I” neglecting that the scene is not for one but for all?

    Leaving the scene shouldn’t be an option, we need more people willing to show the Egotistical personalities that a world of I is as lonesome as it sounds. We need to show these people a ride on the wild side! Please come back TSB, for little by little those who think like you will become the many and one day the scene can only smile welcome to each and everyone despite…
     
  3. tsb

    tsb Well-Known Member

    Re: What's wrong w/ salsa?

    indeed. but i do think that the latin cultural underpinnings w/ the machismo thang goin' on contributes to the mentality and that won't go away.

    hey, i still dance salsa, i just seldom frequent salsa only venues nowadays. and even amongst salsa dancers i have no real issue with, i often find a provincialism in their view that i personally find a little off-putting, that somehow salsa is THE only dance, all other dances are boring, etc. there are things i like about salsa, but doing just one style of dance all night to be pretty boring to me personally so if i'm at a swing / salsa / WCS / argentine tango venue the odds are that i'm there with one or more friends that i want to spend time with who probably only dance that dance, with salsa being highest on that list of odds. otherwise, i prefer more ballroomish-type venues that play a variety of different music so i can waltz, salsa, swing/lindy, WCS, argentine tango, etc. in a given evening because each dance allows me to express different aspects of my own personality as well as draw on unique aspects of the personalities of the people i choose to dance with. a friend who is a flirt/shameless ham is a natural choice for WCS whereas someone who's more reserved but a closet romantic is my choice for a waltz or foxtrot. and so it goes.

    i should also note that i do also get called on jobs to perform, dance host, & teach, etc. from time to time so this may provide me an outlet where if i didn't have it the salsa world might have more appeal for me. also, since dance can be "work" for me i probably look at what i want out of social dancing a lot differently than most folks.

    but i need to say that i do appreciate your reply. thank you.
     
  4. squirrel

    squirrel New Member

    i've already invited everybody who wants to come to romania (on another forum) - i saw you guys want to meet somewhere and have fun together... i propose romania... why? for many reasons, one being there are so few good salseros here... i'm sure you guys are good (at least some of you) and i'd like to give it a try...
    i dance LA style... i've also danced with a guy who knows cuban style (interesting and oh so different) and i tried on the 2 once (NY i guess, right?) - didn't really like it... :((
    what do you think, guys? and gals? wanna give it a try and come to bucharest, romania?
     
  5. salsachinita

    salsachinita New Member

    Re: What's wrong w/ salsa?

    Indeed, Boriken! This is the exact goal I am working really hard towards.. a united salsa community, instead of a segragated one. Sometimes i feel really alone in this, as a lot of the people are unaware that we, as individuals, can make a difference. So, will my DF family join me on this one...? We can make it part of the mission along side the Grand World DF Tour :wink: .......!

    In my corner of the world it seems to be the non-latin side that becomes problematic........sure, Latinos are proud, but the real egotistic characters rarely come from them...... :?
     
  6. squirrel

    squirrel New Member

    :))) salsachinita... i think a united salsa world would be ideal... but how to achieve it?
    are you forgetting the inflated egos of salseros/salseras, the fact that 'their style' is 'THE VERY BEST'... the stupid arguments about whether we should dance on 1 or on 2 (or on 3, 4 5 etc. :))) - i hear it's the new fashion)... and oh so many other things... how do you see this 'union'? how can it be accomplished?!
    hope your dream comes true though... it's my dream too... because salsa is OURS... it belongs to the WORLD!!!
     
  7. salsachinita

    salsachinita New Member

    I don't know about others but I can tell you my approach. The way I see it is very simple. Regardless of our own preferred timing or style, if we all branch out a little bit (doesn't have to be your entire evening), and dance/socialise/converse with people of different style/timing/school, we can all benefit from eachother's differences/experiences.

    Then, more likely than not (as I have experienced it myself), we will realise that as salsa fanatics, we are more alike than we are different.

    So is there any point to argue over who's better, or who can out-do whom...? Sure, skill/proficiency levels do come into the equation. But isn't being humble the best way to learn new things...?

    *I think I've written too many posts along the same vein....better stop before my DF family go :roll: ...........*
     
  8. squirrel

    squirrel New Member

    dear salsachinita,

    your view of salsa is very close to mine... BUT:

    how do you propose to really accomplish this? i mean, for christ's sake, i have people - salseros i mean - who wouldn't dance with me 'cause i didn't want to sleep with them, or because they do not want to sleep with me (and thus are not interested in my dancing either), some don't even say 'hi' anymore (i know most of the dancers or will get to know them sooner or later, the salsa world is quite small here)... i even had one guy who refused to dance with me during classes on account of his being 'so much better than i' - his own words and he added there's nothing he could learn from me... can you believe it?! i mean, at the time he WAS better than i, but now this has considerably changed... and still i think we can and SHOULD learn from everybody (btw, the teacher threw him out - he was too nasty and arrogant)...
     
  9. Sabor

    Sabor New Member

    gradually.. in time.. its like a netting out process.. those who continue albiet with faulted perception will be smoothed out by experience and through sharing .. thru realization that the more u know the more u discover how limited u were and still are.. the more u become dependant on others to learn.. the more u respect others and yourself for accepting it.. the better u feel in your heart.. the more passion u gush.. the more u love the dance and everything about it.. then on its a never ending upward spiral of satisfaction y romance

    its phases squirrel.. like anything it takes some time.. u just do your part and express what u stand for .. without being intimidated because time and passion of salsa is by your side.. no way will it let u down if u are true to it :wink:

    u know.. people can try to change salsa.. but they end up just barely adding to it .. meanwhile they discover that salsa has changed them soul out.. and in the process discarded those with no soul to deliver.. now aint salsa cooooool or what!?! 8)
     
  10. salsachinita

    salsachinita New Member

    :notworth: :notworth: :notworth: :notworth: :notworth:
     
  11. cocodrilo

    cocodrilo New Member

    attitudes when dancing

    I can say only how utterly intimidated I was when I first started dancing latin dance and that I noticed the "egos" right away! Salsarythms has it right when he says that "a businessperson should welcome new faces". This is truly my credo as I am now producing salsa events and in order to get a flock of newcomers to join in would gladly take them to the mirror and show them a few basic steps! I, too, have also noticed "cliques" at salsa events and this, too, can be irritating to new learners of latin dance when they are left standing around because everyone sticks to the familiar faces or members of their dance classes. A good dancer, male or female, can make ANY beginner look good, so I think instructors ought to go out there and ask people to dance(hey, isn't this a way of drumming up business? my business partner/instructor will dance with everyone!)!!! If they are tired from teaching dance all day they ought to stay home and take a bath! tsb mentions something about latin attitude but it happens over here in Japan, so one might call it "Asian attitude" as well. Dancing shouldn't cause stress, it should be a means to relieve it! I think a lot of people are taking personal baggage onto the dance floor. Lighten up, smile for heaven's sake, and HAVE A GOOD TIME!
     
  12. squirrel

    squirrel New Member

    :))) cocodrilo, i know exactly what you mean!! when i started salsa, i also noticed the inflated egos... and now, as an instructor, i DO invite beginners, BUT: as i've said before, they DO NOT invite me back... not even when i am all alone, all the 'good guys' are taken and i move to the beat, make eye contact and smile to them... so sometimes i get sick and tired of always inviting them myself... they should also do it! just come up to me and ask for a dance!
     
  13. Sabor

    Sabor New Member

    LOL.. oh no no carinita.. this is not a smiley to be used by such as you .. to one such as me.. for u are the calibre of lady that i would kiss her hand b4 the dance and both her hands after (if it wouldnt bother u that is :oops: ) and in between them heaven by salsa :p
     
  14. MapleLeaf Salsero

    MapleLeaf Salsero New Member

    Really nice post Sabor!
     
  15. swinginstyle

    swinginstyle New Member

    Speaking of egos, we have a first-class ego here in our KC salsa community. He expects people to always call him, he rarely, if ever calls anyone back. Quite frankly, he's a pain in the butt. On the other hand, there's another guy who really built our scene from the ground up. He invests the time calling people back and showing respect to other members of the dance community. Regardless of talent or ability, I will give my business to the person that shows me respect, not arrogant ego-maniacs.
     
  16. D-spot

    D-spot Member

    Consider the demographics in comparison to ballroom. Salseros tend to be younger (yeah I know there are many exceptions in both fields, go with the generic not the specific, you'll see where I am going) and less well trained.
    Now remmeber, the majority of people out there are cool dudes and just want to have a good time and are well grounded in reality. It only takes a few to spoil the good vibes (apples and barrels). Younger often means more insecure, they feel they have more to prove, need to attract attention, any attention is better than no attention at all (positive strokes and negative strokes are better than no strokes at all - Transactional Analysis talk).
    Soooo, you get these young bloods out to impress (the old mating game, and once you get old, you usually have a mate) anyone and anything. Perhaps they aren't progressing at work as fast as they want, perhaps life in general isn't treating them as good as they feel they deserve (time teaches a good lesson, god I feel old saying all this). So, they get out to the clubs with a chip on their shoulder and all they can think about is themselves and how good they can look. They need to be part of the 'in-crowd', they need to accolades of others and to have swooning girls at their feet (unfortunately it is the male of the species that fluffs up his feathers for attention).

    Is there hope? Most assuredly yes. Time will tell. Most of them will start looking outside the box and see what is happening around them and hopefully mature into a great dancer showing concern for their partner.

    D-spot
     
  17. D-spot

    D-spot Member

    A good thing did happen the other day at a salsa club (I am one of that rare breed of crossovers, I dance in both the ballroom world and the salsa world).
    Tired after a long day at work, not really in the mood I turned up at a club, stayed for 30 minutes and then got my coat. This is a good thing? Not yet.
    As I was about to leave the doorman stopped me and asked pleasantly why I was going so early. I explained that I was both tired and that I new very few people in the club (newish cluba nd I have been out of the scene for a couple of months, finances and time, same ol' same ol'). He offered to introduce me around to a few people.
    What a great offer. I shall definitely be going back there and taking him up on his offer. The more people like that around then the more salsa (or any dance) will grow, and in a good way.

    Why do people want to dance (salsa or otherwise)? I personally believe it is to meet people and develop a social life and dance is a tool to be used to get there.
    How can we help the dance world? It benefits us all in the long run.
    Promote your local studio and dance clubs.
    Introduce newcomers to your established contacts (we have a guy here in Toronto called Terry Z who does this all the time, most people appreciate such introductions and only a few don't, keep up the great work Terry).
    Be prepared to dance with newcomers, good dancers or beginners. Everyoe will eventually improve.
    Finally, (what I tell my students, the few I have) dance 100% for your partner. Not 50%. If they do the same in return then the world will spin on a new axis, the sun will always shine, disease and hardship will disappear, and you will eternally be wealthy. Well, okay, you know what I mean.

    D-spot
     
  18. borikensalsero

    borikensalsero Moderator

    D-spot

    Can I just say that I love your attitude!!! I'm glad to see people from all parts of the world trying to achieve a positive attitude in the salsa world. :D
     
  19. peachexploration

    peachexploration New Member

    Ditto Boriken! Welcome D-Spot. :D
     
  20. Sabor

    Sabor New Member

    Gracias ML!
     
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