Discussion in 'Salsa' started by SDsalsaguy, Mar 24, 2004.
Rum/Rumb-- Now tell us how you really feel !!
funny, im not a part of any of the offending groups the rumbera mentions, yet i manage to have a jolly good time dancing here in LA. *shrugs* different strokes i guess. i find it interesting that this same post has been copied and pasted in more than one forum. :???: at any rate, "welcome"... and happy dancing.
It's unfortunate to hear some of your responses...I'm glad I don't live in L.A. if that's how it is to dance there. I went to the LA congress but I am sure that's not representative of the LA scene so I can't really comment.
On the other hand, the Boston salsa scene rocks! And from the bazillion trips I take to New York their scene rocks too. People are kind, friendly and have a lot of fun...and some of my closest friends are salseros. Wahoooo!
Are you sure that's L.A. salsa and not just L.A.?
Welcome to DF!
I've been out in LA the last few nights and 90% of the women were NOT dressed ultra-sexy/revealing. There was the normal mix of 80% looking stylish but not over the top and the other 20% was dressed down or dressed up. I only saw a few women in very short skirts, most were what you'd see for Friday movie or dinner dates.
Overall LA is like any city, there are lots of clubs and we can dance almost every night of the week if we wish. I saw a LOT of women that wouldn't fit the "very sexy" mode and they were having a great time, with both younger and older men. Some of it is building relationships, some of it is attitude.
There is no question that thinner women will get more attention than heavier women, no matter what the age. (That said, LOTS of men prefer larger women.) For most guys, they aren't planning on a date, so they will dance with anybody, but they still have their preferences.
The old adage that "Men are attracted to beauty and women are attracted to power" is clearly an over statement. But it has a kernel of truth that is reflected in the salsa clubs, health clubs, office parties and other social scenes.
Henry Kissinger (Former Secretary of State) once said "power is the ultimate aphrodisiac" and he was named "Sexiest Man Alive" by People Magazine. That guy looks like an old baseball mit. But a wide set of younger women love him (Everybody is younger than him, he's got to be upper 80's or more.)
At one club this week there was a 20-something, dressed in ultra short skirt, cropped top, looking very sexy, and she got lots of attention from the guys. I'm over 45 and since I had just read this thread I watched to see how it worked for her.
90% of her dances were with men within 10 years of her age, and us older men weren't exactly on her agenda (which is fine). She also happens to be a decent dancer, so I wouldn't turn her down if she asked, but I don't go out of my way to dance with her.
LA clubs are actually a strong mix of dancers, and overall I doubt it's much different than other cities. Some clubs are better, some worse... They are social scenes and as such the normal mix of people and attitudes apply.
Thankyou for reading & quoting something I had written all these times ago...!! This means more to me than you realised. Thanks again.
Well, in many ways I agree. I don't think being Asian or dressing slutty has anything to do with it-the girls are just young and cute. But if you don't fall in that age range and image then it can be harsh. This is a problem-in LA anyways.
Many female newcomers quit going out to clubs because of this attitude. And I am amazed by the men and their egos. It is surreal. Women really are so surprised by how much they are ignored when they go out if they don't fit that certain image.
I have just come to a point where if I am being ignored then screw it I am going to ask. But that isn't always easy if you are feeling rejected or not very good about yourself. Especially if you are a new dancer.
Not everyone is like this in the Salsa scene but there is alot of it going around.
Just my two cents.
Thanks for your comments and enjoy it while it lasts, i.e. while you are still young and cute.
Interesting how those who are young/cute or are into young/cute go to great lengths to defend their "scene." Thanks for having the courage to acknowledge the truth.
BTW if I'm being ignored I don't think the solution is to ask those same people to dance.
im not the "under 30er" that youve spoken of. and im NOT of the top echelon of "cuties" in the club. sorry that our impressions of the scene are so different.
btw, in ref to your response to blink.... i totally agree with her. when i was a beginner, i made it a point to ask those who ignored me (i.e. many advanced dancers) because i wanted to get to where they were. i may have had two left feet, but i didnt let that discourage me from asking away, and ensuring that i got to appreciate this dance and enjoy this scene.
Could these type of behavior be reduced by a governing body over-seeing instructors?
Eliminate self made instructors who can't really teach or dance
Grant students the ability to identify "frauds"
Aaaah, who am I kidding... I think salsa is fine, the people are the ones who need adjustment...
New blood helps to. Friday night was a blast for me because I danced with someone new who's really into the scene here. He's from Montreal (and BOY does it ever show), and honestly had the best night dancing I've had in a long time. I think when you get the same people allllll the time, atmosphere can go sour. Which is why it's so great to travel to other cities. You get to BE the new blood, and you get to dance with new blood.
Yes borkien, salsa is more than fine. Salsa is fabulous. It attracts some passionate, dramatic, sometimes ego-driven and insecure fellows though, which, when you put them all in a room together, can cause interesting dynamics, to say the least.
And I think your comment about governing bodies is good, but controversial... we've all discussed how on earth one would be qualified to become such an instructor or create such a body. You'd haveto get into formalized curriculum, method and evaluation, and this forum has heatedly argued for angd against something like that. Also, there's no guarantee such an overssing body would be any less cliquey and exclusive than what goes on right now. As a matter of fact, it could get worse. There would be an administration-approved elite. I think it's just up to us, who "get it" to break the mold, be as friendly and universal as possible, warmly accept the noobs, never be loathe to give a brief lesson or two to someone who's never danced a step before, and smile as much as humanly possible. We're dancing to celebrate LIFE! not to prove how fantastic we are or exclude others. It's fine to celebrate one's own fantasticness within onesself (indeed this makes the best dancing), but if one is intent on wearing one's fabulous skill on the sleeve and making it some kind of exclusive badge, it's just going to create the kind of divisive, snobbish attitude we can run up against frequently.
Overly simple I know but.......
To those of us "comfortable" in our scene: Do you dislike the salsa snobs in your scene? Then don't be one yourself, and dance with as many possible different people.
Not overly simple at all. Any suggestions on how to win over the ego-driven, sex-driven, young and cute-fixated crowd to this perspective? As others have suggested, asking men to dance who don't want to dance with us is not the solution. (What is up with that?)
Not overly simple at all. Any suggestions on winning over the sex and ego driven, young and cute fixated crowd to this perspective?
As others have suggested, asking these men to dance who are not interested in doing so is not the solution. (Sounds like a lack of self-respect issue to me.)
I'm noticing a slight change in attitudes in my local scene. As more of us who were novices 2 years ago are startign to get better and continuing to dance with everybody happily, others are starting to follow the example. I've certainly seen some dancers who did not dance with with everybody start to expand their horizons and dance with more folks (but still, they like to dance with those who have a certain minimum skill level - it's a improvement still).
I still don't like the snobs too much.But I've learned from personal changes that it is much easier to be good from the beginning than to find goodness after being bad. So whenever I find someone doing the latter, I look at them with a high amount of respect - so the erstwhile snobs who have changed are ones I hold in high esteem.
I don't know if it can be done. It's like asking if you can change someone who doesn't want to change. Certainly as Boriken suggests, if we have teachers stressing the importance of this (as well as not misbehaving themselves), it would help.
My own philosophy is to ignore the ones who don't accept me, and concentrate on those that do. Easier said than done, but eventually you surround yourself with people that you want to be around (and want to be around you) - rather than ones that you're trying to beg for attention from.
It's unfortunate that it's sorta like Jr High all over again, and that you're not going to be friends with everyone. But hey, it's still better than the traditional club/bar scene.
Did obi-wan ask how to get the Emperor to wear brown and be nice?
Hmmm what is interesting is that I've found the behaviour of LA salseros in other places as well (say, a congress...).
And it happened to me!
The first 2 nights I dressed in fashion, but didn't show any skin. The third night I decided to wear a nice short skirt and a sexi top. Guess when I danced more? Or, should I say, when I got invited to dance more?!
Obviously, my skill level had not changed from Saturday to Sunday... but Sunday I danced so much more! Ans yes, this is annoying and unfair. But since when is life fair?
What it really shows, is this, many attendees are fairly new to the " scene ", and can be intimidated by more experienced dancers .
Their perspectives will change with time ( in most cases ) Add to the mix, the very base instinct of the male" animal " .
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