What are the 5 top reasons that make a man ask a woman to dance? Beauty comes first?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by Paula M, Jul 29, 2010.

  1. wooh

    wooh Well-Known Member

    I don't know, my favorite tiny Russian dancer has always asked my permission to dance with my husband. I think it's cute. But I think everything she does is cute. So it might just be my love for her...
     
  2. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    I don't stay away from anyone who is supposedly my friend! I've sat with a couple and had the man get up and dance with someone else, at which point I continue socializing with the woman. I've had the man ask me to dance, and I've accepted. I've also spent time just sitting and talking to both of them.

    I try to make it obvious to the leaders I like that I really like dancing with them. (and if someone seems uncertain, I'll be positively GUSHING in my enthusiasm) Beyond that, the ball's in their court. I don't pursue them during a milonga. If someone wants to interpret my socializing as pursuit, that's their issue not mine. My favorite leaders already know I want to dance with them; I don't need to "babysit" a leader in order to get my point across. It seems like it would be far more awkward and hurtful to AVOID a woman who thinks of you as a friend.

    It's no secret around here that followers are hoping for dances, especially from certain leaders. We have a serious imbalance of good leaders to good followers. I imagine the leaders feel quite hounded and pressured even if no one does so overtly, and for the nicer ones, that must be uncomfortable. (for some it's just another boost to their already overblown ego :rolleyes:).

    I imagine the regular partners/ spouses of good leaders get tired of EVERYONE wanting to snap up their mate for a tanda (or more) But that's the downside of being involved with a man who dances well... Personally, I think the benefits would outweigh that downside. Even if he circulates a lot, she's always guaranteed at least one tanda (usually more) with a great leader, plus she has a skilled practice partner and someone who will be available for those "couples only" workshops.

    I think it's sad that a woman would assume that another woman only pays any attention to her in order to get to her partner. That says quite a bit of what she thinks of herself, doesn't it?
     
  3. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    And she knows you'll always say yes. Would it bother you if she DIDN'T ask? What if it was someone you wanted to say no to? Would you actually tell another follower that she couldn't dance with your husband?

    As I said earlier... it seems this whole thing is a formality... no one REALLY expects the partner to say no.

    I notice no one has answered my questions about whether or not they have ever had a male partner say no while the woman accepts the dance (or clearly wishes to)

    No one has even answered this question as a hypothetical... "what would you do if _____?"

    Or answered the question of how you decide what level of "date" to extend this "courtesy" of a man controlling the woman's dancing. (any date? Dancing partners? Married people only? New to the scene that you don't know? People you always danced with BEFORE they found a mate?)
     
  4. tangobro

    tangobro Active Member

    I probably will not have to confront her in the bathroom or the parking lot.

    As for the cabeceo, if I go to her table & ask her while ignoring any others then I feel that I am interacting with them in a negative way. If she responds to the cabeceo by standing & moving towards the dance floor I feel that it's just about me and her.



    Yes, I have had woman get up to dance while the man was turning me down. I face him squarely look him in the eye, take her hand & say "sorry". Then she & I dance.

    This demonstration of mutual respect among "the guys" is not a "tango thing" for me. This is, I guess, the way I've been socialized. This is the what I did before I discovered tango and brought with me to the milonga.

    At one of my 1st milongas however, I learned from a woman, that there was a kind of loose rule among the guys. We knew each other from classes & practicas so she joined me at a table to chat, when she left she said it was because if other guys saw her sitting at the table with me they would not ask her to dance. Is this one of the Bs.As. codes?
     
  5. Zoopsia59

    Zoopsia59 Well-Known Member

    Was it you or another poster I asked about this? Is there really that much risk of confrontation from a guy where you dance? I haven't traveled a lot for tango, but everywhere I have been, it's standard for people to circulate. I do know of one couple that doesn't, and a few leaders who don't even though their partners do, but I've never heard of there being problems between them and others over simple asking. Usually, any questions about it get resolved by asking 3rd parties, not the couple (ie: "Does he ever ask anyone else to dance" or "Does she accept dances from other leaders?"

    Which brings up a much easier method of dealing with this... ask someone else more familiar with the people about the person in question.

    Now I'm really confused! Isn't that even MORE "disrespectful" to him than not asking him in the first place? I would think that would be far more likely to result in a confrontation than leaving him out of it all along. After all, now you can't claim not to know his wishes. :confused: If it's in the guy code of respect to ask, isn't it in the guy code to honor his answer?

    Yes.

    In the BA codes, the situation of asking the man if you can dance with his date would never come up. If a couple is seated together, they are not circulating. If they are seated apart, they are circulating. There is never a need to check with a man to see if it's ok to dance with a particular woman.

    However, most of us aren't in BA, and we don't want to have to avoid ever sitting with our date in order to dance. (this is especially true of beginners who are shy about socializing with the "good" dancers if they don't know them.)

    I personally don't like a system where politely asking someone to dance would ever be considered wrong. Nor do I like a system where avoiding socializing with friends (or anyone else for that matter) because of "dance codes" is required, or is the only way to convey whether you are or aren't dancing.

    But then, as one of the "outcasts" all through school and never one of the "in crowd", I'm vehemently opposed to anything that smacks of secret handshakes to fit in, or practices that leave some "in the know" and some floundering scratching their heads or feeling hurt and left out. Tango is hard enough already.
     
  6. tangobro

    tangobro Active Member

    That's the point of showing respect, minimizing the risk of confrontation, and not having to find out how much risk there actually is. Like I said earlier, this is behavior I learned dancing in clubs long before I discovered tango. The tango scene may be more sedate than the club & salsa scenes, but there are still men in competition so the risk is there.

    We are talking about 2 different things. You are talking about a couple that chooses to circulate or not.

    As I said in the earlier post

    So I am not concerned at the moment with if the couple circulates, I've already determined that the probability is yes or I would not waste time asking.

    No. It's her choice. It's more in the "guy code" for both to respect her choice.

    Understand I'm not speaking for all guys everywhere in all circumstances. There are times when I break the rule myself & disregard the guy (usually if he has already demonstrated that he is not a gentleman, but sometimes because I'm not as focused as I should be).
     
  7. gyb

    gyb New Member

    I always try to use the cabeceo, especially when I ask someone with whom I never danced before. When the lady accepts and I approach the table, if she is seated with another guy who seems to be her partner, I seek his eyes with a question mark in mine. Usually I receive an "of course" nod as an answer.

    This can be reasonably interpreted as me asking his permission, although it is more a way of acknowledging his presence and their relationship and thus showing respect towards another human being. It also has a secondary purpose, namely to make sure he perceives the situation as one in which an polite invitation was made and accepted; there are many guys who force themselves onto ladies with an extended hand leaving no choice for them, and I don't have the desire to be categorized as such when it is not the case. So to answer your question what happens when the guy seems disapproving: I make sure that I also ask verbally the lady whether she would want to dance so that he can hear the answer. If she says yes I dance with her regardless the guy's reaction; it is their business to work it out among themselves this issue.

    It never happened before, but if the lady clearly accepted the cabeceo but then retreated when I asked her verbally due to the reaction of her partner, I would smile, walk away, and never ask her to dance again. She should be able to make her own choices.
     
  8. pascal

    pascal Member

    Yeah, true. I attended a couple of open-air milongas in Paris during Summer and each time I noticed that the leaders were decently skilled, good musicality, good navigation, relaxed determination, while the followers, damn, part-time balance, feeble perception of the lead, waiting to be moved, stepping (that is, falling on their feet) but not putting emphasis on the said step.

    So yes, as a criterion for which woman to ask for a dance, there remains beauty.
     
  9. pascal

    pascal Member

    I got several "I was going to invite her." which technically is not a no, but I took it as a no.
    Most of the time I get
    'Help yourself"
    "You must be joking"
    "Sure. No need to ask"
    "Hey you have to ask *me*" (from the lady sitting near.)
     
  10. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    For me, I ask the man if I don't know the couple well (thus I don't know what to expect). Also this only applies if the man is sitting right there with the woman (I have on occasion waited until the man went to dance with someone else, to bypass this, although I had one woman who said, "I'm with "so and so" tonight, ask me some other time).

    I don't remember ever having a guy say no to me when asking for permission, although sometimes I get a certain vibe that may keep me from asking, (and I select someone else).
     
  11. AnnaN

    AnnaN Member

    ok, I know this is also an old response, but i felt like i have to chime in.

    There is one partner in particular whom I know with whom I always talk throughout the whole tanda. I talk because my leader is so terrible and he knows it, and the best we can do is something simple and use the time to chat throughout the whole song.

    At other times, I just do not feel the connection with the partner, and I get bored. He does not give me anything interesting to do as a reflection of his interpretation of the music. It does not mean that I can't or won't feel a connection with the next person I dance with. All this is telling me is to fake enthusiasm when I do not have it....

    I love dancing with closed eyes, but the issue of height is a problem for me. Sometimes, as much as I want, I just can't dance the whole song with closed eyes. I recently danced with a shorter than me partner; he was not bad at all; and the embrace was not bad, but the height difference was uncomfortable for me, so I could not dance the whole song with closed eyes, so I ended up looking around me which I know is horrible.

    So which is better: a. to refuse to dance with someone because I know I won't like it or b. to accept dancing with the person I know I won't like dancing with, but to be seen dancing on the floor?

    All I'm saying is that it's unfair to judge followers according to the above criteria. They seem logical, but in my experience, they are a mere reflection of my feel for the current partner.... But then again, yes, life is unfair.
     
  12. AnnaN

    AnnaN Member

    I am so glad you are saying this!!! It's totally true for me!
     
  13. AnnaN

    AnnaN Member



    Since I am on a roll reading this thread, I am responding to another old post:

    I tell some leaders that I am impressed with their dancing, but that's not to lure them to dance again. I have not danced with everyone, so I have no clue if there are better dancers out there, so at the moment I say it, I believe it, and of course I will hope to dance again with the person, but I do not mean this as pressuring them.

    It has happened to me to tell someone that they were a great dancer and mean it, and then to dance with another leader and be blown away by their skills much more.

    So I suppose, it will really make my job easier if leaders flat out tell me, "But so and so is so much better than me. Have you danced with them?" I will greatly appreciate such information! ;)
     
  14. newbie

    newbie Active Member

    Beginner sits near me. Flood of thoughts.

    "- Saw you dancing, it's just incredible how well you do it, you and the teacher here are the only leaders worth it, are you a professional?"

    Lol no but thx [ and who cares your opinion, you're a beginner ]

    "- Yunno I can tell people who have a gift, I am an artist, I am a painter. "

    Wow that's cool. [ Meh, I can tell you have no gift for tango. Please stand up and go tell someone else ]

    "- I take privates with the teacher. I started one month ago. Maybe you would invite me?"

    Ahem... Better ask the teacher then, there cannot be a more profitable experience for you. [ Never! Never shall I dance with you. The minute you came I knew that all your chit-chat was just a diversion]

    < Kept coming to me, week after week, milonga after milonga >

    - Maybe you would invite me?

    Ok. [Well there comes a moment where your excuses drawer is empty. What to do now, from what I saw you cannot walk nor cross nor pivot nor stand still.]

    <end of the tanda>

    "(Wiping a tear) Oh that was so intense! Thank you so much, so much!"

    Cool, thx [ You're even worse than you look. Ok, is my yearly quota of terrible dances reached? Or will you come again and again and again, taking it for granted that if I am sitting then I owe you a tanda?]
     
  15. AnnaN

    AnnaN Member

    very interesting, indeed! Did not know it happened often!
     
  16. AnnaN

    AnnaN Member

    Wow, if I knew this before I started taking AT classes, I might not have joined this clique. It's so political. I shudder. :eek:
     
  17. Mladenac

    Mladenac Active Member

    Besides dancing AT you learn to be a diplomat and a psychologist :cool:
     
    AnnaN likes this.
  18. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    Wow.
     
  19. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    I have observed in the past couple of months that the number of invitations I get is often directly proportional to the height of my mood. I've been experiencing a lot of *ahem* hormonal fluctuations, which sometimes leave my cranky for no reason. Those nights, even though I really want to dance and dancing would make me feel better, the leaders tend to stay away--with the exception of the rare few who ALWAYS dance with me. This, of course, makes me more cranky, and they really don't want to dance with me then. I try to school my features into a non-cranky face, but I must be exuding "don't touch me" vibes despite myself. On nights when I'm in a better mood, I get more invitations.
     
  20. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I wonder why that would be?

    [​IMG]
     

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