What's the difference: Lindy Hop Vs. East Coast Swing?

Discussion in 'Swing Discussion Boards' started by achilles007, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. Siggav

    Siggav Moderator Staff Member

    First of all, wait what? No I just PMs pygmalion because she said I could if I had links I wanted to post since I don't have a high enough postcount yet.


    Anyway yeah that swings, not the orchestra bits at the beginning and not what the violins start playing once they're in the jazz band set up but once the brass kicks in it's swinging

    Awesome! Great that I could help.
     
  2. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member


    Thanks. That's what I thought. To me, it's like unswung music is square or maybe angular. Swung music is curved. I know that sounds like a crazy description, but that's how it sounds to me. :)

    Kinda reminds me of marching band (which I was in) versus jazz band (which my BF at the time was in.) My music? Square. His music? Curved. :cool:
     
  3. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    I really wish those posts were broken off into anther thread, because I want to get back to the actual topic of the thread. If you watch siggav's last video-- the Lindy Hop Invitational -- you can see MAJOR differences from ECS. After I watched that, btw, youtube pointed me to the complete finals of the 2010 invitational, so I watched that too. What fun! I would post it, but, for some reason, when I tried, youtube wouldn't let me. I don't know if it's copyright protected or what. It's worth a google though.

    My short answer: In lindy, the swingout is home base.

    Yes or no, lindy people? :)
     
  4. juwest333

    juwest333 Active Member

    Yes. The swingout is lindy's signature move. :)
     
  5. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    I've seriously gotta try it, after I lose twenty pounds and get my cardiovascular system in order. I know that I'm watching world class dancers but still, lindy seems a lot more athletic than ECS as well.

    I tried finding some ECS videos for comparison, btw, but couldn't find anything comparable. All I could find was low-level student showcases and a pro final that was so ballroomy and exaggerated that it didn't even look like swing, to me. I'll keep looking.
     
  6. Siggav

    Siggav Moderator Staff Member

    You're exactly right, the swingout is pretty much the lindy basic. Which is one thing that makes lindy hard to learn. The basic move isn't very basic.

    To get a swing out that really works you need to have good lead/follow skills and be good at working with timing, momentum and counter balance and have a good elastic frame.
     
  7. Steve Pastor

    Steve Pastor Moderator Staff Member

    Which is pretty much why the "East Coast Swing" style of swing became popular.
     
  8. juwest333

    juwest333 Active Member

    True. But it is soooooo worth it when you finally do "get it"! :)
     
  9. Siggav

    Siggav Moderator Staff Member

    Oh yeah, mmmmmm...
     
  10. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Is it not possible to just fake it til you make it, swingout-wise? In an ideal world, yes. There'd be good lead/follow and a connection through the core. BUT I've danced plenty of swingouts where there was neither.
     
  11. Siggav

    Siggav Moderator Staff Member

    Kind of, which is why I said "swing out that really works" it's possible to do swingouts that don't really work. The difference is very noticable when you get it right. Good swingouts feel really good and makes you understand what the fuss is all about while not great swing outs are more of a huh? why are they spending so much time on trying to teach us this move that doesn't seem to be that great
     
  12. bookish

    bookish Active Member

    In the Lindy world, ECS (non-ballroom ECS, because I know American Rhythm swing is called ECS sometimes) is usually seen as beginner swing or the gateway to learning Lindy. ECS also has its own movement vocabulary, but it doesn't seem to emphasize technique as much. I did some Googling to figure out what an advanced ECS class is considered to be, and it's pretty much more/flashier moves, such as aerials, drops, and pretzels. The aerials/drops are usually clunky and dangerous-looking, and don't lead a pretzel with a Lindy follower unless you want her to hate you ;)

    The swingout is a good rule-of-thumb designator for Lindy, but it doesn't have to be the basic step, in the sense of the step you do repeatedly interspersed with some other things. The way of moving (using good pulse, partner connection, stretch/compression, momentum, etc) is more important. Sometimes I just don't do a lot of swingouts in social dancing, because of crowded floors, inexperienced followers, or mood. A lot of basic 6-count moves work too, just done in a Lindy way.
     
  13. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Hmm. Cool.

    So what's this bounce I keep hearing about? Is that what you mean by, "in the lindy way?" the posture also seems very ... relaxed?
     
  14. bookish

    bookish Active Member

    I don't personally like the word "relaxed" because it's ambiguous among at least three meanings: limp or unengaged muscles and slouching (generally bad), efficient movement without excess muscle tension (generally good), and "street" dance non-balletic, non-ballroom posture and poise (matter of style.)

    The posture with the torso forward and knees bent is often called athletic posture, and people compare both the posture and the pulse/bounce to movement in basketball. I don't play basketball but I can see the resemblance. Personally, I try to keep my postural muscles (core & upper back) as engaged as in any other dance and bend at the hips, but it's relatively easy to get away with slouching.

    I'm not sure I'm up to a good precise technical description of pulse yet. It's something I'm still working on a lot (both practicing and describing it). Part of it is quite literally bounce (your body moves downward toward the floor and the legs act as springs, rather than keeping your movement level & continuous like in other dances), but there's more to it than that. Easier to see/feel than describe.
     
    pygmalion likes this.
  15. Siggav

    Siggav Moderator Staff Member

    Yeah you basically pulse or "bounce" on every beat, it's a down pulse rather than an up one, into the floor rather than up. You don't want to be completely smooth. When following it's pretty much your job (in addition to everything else) to match the pulse of your lead, both making sure you're synced up but also to match the magnitude or how much he/she is pulsing. Dancing together feels by far the best when your pulses match.

    The pulse helps you stay rythmically synced up, feel the music and feels nice. It's extra important when doing charleston steps really as well but kept going all the time when dancing pretty much

    We did exercises in class the other day playing with the pulse, asking all the follows to take it out while the leads kept the pulse in and then switching that etc. Really exaggerating it or keeping it small. It was a good technical exercise and made me more aware of how important it is and how much nicer it feels to have a matching pulse.

    Cam and Loz have a visually obvious pulse/bounce in this clip. She starts bouncing on her own at the start and then they keep it going through the whole thing



    I know a bunch of dances try to eliminate all bounce and keep things super smooth, in lindy you don't want that but you do want a completely on rythm, even and relaxed pulse, it also helps keep your footwork tidy
     
    juwest333 likes this.
  16. Siggav

    Siggav Moderator Staff Member

    Also a bit more on posture, the way I've been taught is to think shoulders over knees over the balls of your foot, standing normally and then jumping up a bit and landing usually gets you naturally into that postiion. Even when doing exaggerated forward leans etc. your back should be straight and shoulders not hunched over. It's still shoulders over knees over ball of foot.

    Found a video clip that talks about it a bit



    It's weird though, I wanted to just post a link to these videos rather than embedding them in full, just to keep the thread less cluttered but it doesn't let me, sais I don't have permission to post links but the embedded videos are fine
     
  17. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member


    Yeah. You're right. Relaxed is not the right word, because you do have to be engaged trough your core.
     
  18. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member


    This is a great video. Shoulders over knees over feet makes a lot of sense :)
     
  19. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Okay.That's it. I'm looking for Lindy hop lessons near here. Right now, the closest place I know of is more than an hour drive in each direction, for a one hour class. *sigh*

    Time to google. And if that doesn't work, I'll do some networking at the swing event that will be held here in May.

    It looks so fun!
     
    juwest333 and Siggav like this.
  20. juwest333

    juwest333 Active Member

    I want to like this post a thousand times!!!
     

Share This Page