When do you stop being a beginner?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by MadamSamba, Dec 2, 2004.

  1. MadamSamba

    MadamSamba Member

    In theory there are three levels of dancers: beginner, intermediate and advanced, but, how do you differentiate a beginner from someone who is intermediate and then, again, for someone who is an advanced dancer?

    Obviously the calibre and complexity of their moves is one thing, but what "essence" do they have that someone in the other categories doesn't? For example, beginners may be marked by a lack of confidence whereas advanced dancers might not be (at least they won't show it).

    When you watch someone dance, what in their dancing says "beginner" to you and, similarly, what screams, "whoa, no way am I dancing with him/her, she's way too advance"?
  2. Sabor

    Sabor New Member

    ok.. this ofcourse may vary far and wide but .. summarizing,

    I look mainly for 'style' (technique and attitude) as in the 'how' they move rather than 'what' moves they do..

    The extent of their musicality in movement

    How they adjust to each others styles and perceptions

    Physical ability and control of space

    Level of improvisation and natural skills

    Versatility in style and timing

    If i can sense/see their inner passion rise and transcend them

    ...............

    if these general facors can be placed into 'okay' - 'good' - 'excellent' and each of these are awarded relative points.. u can basically come out with a braod general figure that is an indicator to the stage the dancer is in.. ofcourse its subject to taste/perception as well.. hence i used 'indicator'
  3. newbie

    newbie Active Member

    This URL

    http://www.cyber-tango.com/art/def.html

    will give you clear-cut, precise, scientic, measurable ways to determine whether you're still a beginner. It even defines 5 categories: beginner, intermediate, intermediate-advanced, advanced, and professionnal.

    I'll say you're a beginner as long as you fulfill at least one of the beginner's criteria. For me, it is the one about saying frequently to my partner "on which foot are you?"
  4. pygmalion

    pygmalion Well-Known Member

    Wow. Interesting, newbie. I wonder how the levels were determined.
  5. tangombre

    tangombre New Member

    As mentioned in the hyperlink - with tongue in cheek. It's AT, no silver, gold or platina levels ;)

    It's all pretty fluid anyway, and it does depend a lot on where you dance. In some places you'll be "advanced" after three months, in other places it will take years to become part of the "really good" crowd.

    It's my general experience though that many people overestimate their ability and will indeed take classes/workshops that are at least one level too difficult; seriously struggle with the subject and not use what they've learnt for at least half a year or so...
  6. MadamSamba

    MadamSamba Member

    Newbie, that list was brilliant, but I'm after an explanation of what, intangibly, makes an advanced dancer.

    Last night at ballroom provided a perfect example. I saw a guy, who's an Australian champion, dancing with a true beginner.

    He was doing a simple New Vogue dance (old-time, Australian sequence dance) and, having seen him peform it at an international level just last weekend, I know how expertly and entrancingly he can dance it with a dancer at his level.

    But he danced it so perfectly with this beginner, despite not adding a simple flounce or bit of fancy footwork. He did the basics, flawlessly and she left glowing having danced with one of the country's best New Vogue dancers. Not to mention his floorcraft was impeccable!

    Now that's what I call an advanced dancer.
  7. poetas 84

    poetas 84 New Member

    When you and your partner start really enjoying what you are doing .
  8. Jim Chad

    Jim Chad New Member

    Moderator I need help.

    I can't seem to see how to post a new thread. I would like to ask a question: Is a "tuck turn" the same as an outside turn? If not: what am I missing? Thanks for the help.

    Also, can you tell me how to post a new thread? Thank you, again.
  9. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    The 'New Thread' button is in the same place as the 'Post Reply' button, but one level higher in the site structure (such as here: http://www.dance-forums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9).)

    A tuck turn sounds like an enrosque - but outside turn is not a term familiar to me in AT vocabulary.
  10. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Tuck turn and outside turn sound like things that belong in a WCS forum.
  11. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    Alex Krebs explicity describes the action of tucking one foot in front or behind the other in an enrosque (including for the follower in a forward ocho, embellished in that way), but I've not come across the expression, otherwise.
  12. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    Since this thread was bumped back up, I thought I"d chime in about the "this person's too advanced for me." I used to have that thought about certain leaders, and my husband still thinks that about certain followers.

    From what I've learned in the past year, the only dancer who is "too advanced for you" is an intermediate dancer. These are the ones who know lots of moves and want to do them all, and you'd better strap yourself in and hang on! I danced with someone last night I'd never danced with before. From the moment we took the embrace, he was off and running, doing all kinds of moves, some of which I'd never done before, others combined in ways I'd never done them before. I think I followed pretty well, although there were a couple of spots where I was lost. Contrast that to some much more advanced dancers I've danced with, who are demonstrably WAY above me. Yet, I followed every step and felt like a princess. They also did stuff I didn't know, but they led it so beautifully I felt completely relaxed about it.

    THAT is an advanced dancer...they adapted to me, figured out what I could and could not follow, and helped me stretch in my abilities without stressing me out.
  13. newbie

    newbie Active Member

    Too advanced: then she is a teacher and with teachers I don't feel I'm leading. More advanced is a very common species, but too advanced she has a to be a teacher.

    Beginner follower: no tango shoes. Or the opposite (frequently seen in BsAs classes), completely normal, every-day like clothes, plus flashy blue-fluo Fabioes.
  14. poetas 84

    poetas 84 New Member

    When you can recognize and name at least 3 of the best songs of Canaro,D'Arienzo DiSarli and at least 2 of the best valses of Rodolfo Biagi,you stop talking to your friend or on the mobile telephone when are they are played and start looking for anyone to dance to these tunes,.If at home you star dancing by yourself.Yes (?) Then you are not a beginner any longer
  15. Lilly_of_the_valley

    Lilly_of_the_valley Well-Known Member


    I would say, you are not a beginner anymore when you start recognizing the music and realize you have to dance differently to Di Sarli from the way you dance to D'Arienzo. :)
  16. Nathan

    Nathan Member

    Yes, and when you can actually accomplish this without interfering with anyone else's dancing, then you are advanced. ;)
  17. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Re: recognize


    At first: welcome poetas84 to DF

    secondly: Yes, I find this, too. It really is the step towards a more self-determined way of dancing.

    Finally: Canaro (frowning): there is so much trash among his works, so how can you be sure to pick up one of his best songs? D´Arienzo (musing): I find rhythmic music rather suites for beginners. And concerning me, D´Arienzo (or Biagi, and also 30s tango-milonga stuff) is my token for pausing, talking, drinking. DiSarli (da-core), Biagi-valses (ok) but I cannot fully hide how his tangos always turn me off.

    Interesting, didn´t you dance at home from the very first moment on?
  18. UKDancer

    UKDancer Well-Known Member

    This is also one of the signs that you are no longer a beginner: that your ears can tell the difference!
  19. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    when you dont care what other people think of your dancing.
  20. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    i think that is a misnomer. i dance with experienced tangueras, who know the music but dont know the names of the songs or who they're buy, and I forget names.

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