When do you stop being a beginner?

Discussion in 'Tango Argentino' started by MadamSamba, Dec 2, 2004.

  1. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Sorry, dont know whether my english is so rough or that I found a freudian slip, in the sense that you connect songs rather with buying than with names ;)
     
  2. dchester

    dchester Moderator Staff Member

    I love Canaro and D'Arienzo, however most Biagi tangos are rather boring to me. I guess it's different strokes for different folks (as Biagi seem to be rather popular to some people).
     
  3. opendoor

    opendoor Well-Known Member

    Understood, each his/her own. And I am sure you and I could find an overlap within C and d´A, too.
     
  4. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    a typo; the u being next to the y on the keyboard

    i meant 'by'
     
  5. poetas 84

    poetas 84 New Member

    One does not have to recognize and name tango songs and neither do I, but by the time you are able to recognize and name lets say 10 Tango songs you really love, you will have put enough energy into Tango so as not to be considered beginner any longer.
     
  6. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    One stops being a beginner when they realize that their partner is more than a prop for steps.
     
  7. sixela

    sixela Active Member

    When someone tells you they're honoured you give them a certain compliment?

    BTW, Andabien, I know some pretty advanced followers who make me feel I'm just a prop for steps when I dance with them. Are they beginners?
     
  8. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    Well, you're the one who said they were advanced. If they left me feeling that way, I would never dance with them again.
     
  9. LoveTango

    LoveTango Member

    As a follower, I think I became "advanced" when I quite thinking/guessing what steps to execute, when I became confident that I would be able to accompany the leader to experience the full music journey with our movement.
     
  10. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    Based on that criterion, I will never stop being a beginner, since I am ridiculously bad at recognizing music and attaching names, and matching things to composers is even worse.

    I stopped considering myself a beginner when I really started to own my tango, when I no longer forgave myself my mistakes because "I was a beginner." T'is a very squishy concept, but I remember it quite clearly and it was a definite turning point for me.
     
  11. sixela

    sixela Active Member

    They certainly would see themselves as "advanced". I might have other words for it, though (they certainly 'advanced' to somewhere in their journey in tango, but not necessarily where I want to go); I should have used apologetic quoting.

    And yes, I don't dance very often with them. From time to time, just to convince myself I wasn't having a bad dream. I bet they don't like to dance with me either, because I dance pretty badly when I dance with them; it takes two to tango, even for each individual.
     
  12. sixela

    sixela Active Member

    You could use another criterion: you stop being a beginner when you develop preferences to dancing a certain way (or with certain leaders with a certain style) on a certain type of music.

    Conversely, you're a beginner if your dance would look exactly the same if you were dancing with a broomstick on wheels (robotic for followers; an iBroom? ;) ) accompanied merely by the proverbial fat Nubian celeusta beating the drums for Roman republic navy rowers on a galley.
     
  13. Peaches

    Peaches Well-Known Member

    As the first...eh. I want to dance different ways to different music, and with different leaders. Some days, I want alternative and close...other days alternative and big and open...other days, shared weight to traditional music. It's just a mood thing...no way to form preferences. :)

    As for the second...definitely not! Although I find it hard to really add my own personality and dance differently when I don't get much personality from the guy.
     
  14. sixela

    sixela Active Member

    I didn't say fixed preferences -- you can (and actually confess to having) preferences that are mood-dependent. There you go, you're not a beginner.

    And the same actually holds for leaders (as some of my earlier posts suggest).

    Some followers are obsessed with "not making mistakes".

    They then develop into "advanced" followers obsessed with "looking good", sometimes at the expense of the connection to the music and the partners (if it's not at the expense of the connection to the music and the leader, I consider their obsessive compulsive disorder harmless --at least to me ;) ).

    Some of these will then only dance with leaders they know and music they know, to be sure to only do steps they know in a rhythm they know with a step length they know, etc. Because it's "safe" and they will be in control and Look Perfect. Some of them do Look Good, too. As it's someone else dancing with them when you can watch them, they're often pretty to watch (they usually have very good mastery of adornos although there often is something subtly amiss with the timing of their boleos, as if they weren't being led properly even when they are).

    "No guts, no glory" is more my motto. And 'guts' is not the temerity to launch yourself in a complicated sequence you've learned at the El Grande Meastro workshop #23 with a follower you haven't even started to connect to properly, it's the guts to let the music and the flow on the dancefloor dare you to take a step into uncharted territory, just because you can and circumstances urge you to.

    And for followers, the guts to trust, the guts to actually follow without worrying how you'll look (but worrying how you feel) and the guts to try to explore the freedom the connection with your partner gives you, what feedback you can give and what spice you can add to the dance.
     
  15. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    ah, you stop being a beginner when you fizzle into simultaneous whassisname at the cabaceo and the need to dance is sated....before you leave your chair...;)
     
  16. salthepal

    salthepal New Member

    One time, while I was at a milonga that was part of a visiting teacher's workshop weekend, one lady I was dancing with thanked me profusely for coming over, teaching and being very generous with my dancing. I had to assure her repeatedly that I was not, in fact, that visiting teacher. Gotta admit, it was a pretty sweet ego massage :)
     
  17. bordertangoman

    bordertangoman Well-Known Member

    reminds me of a salsera who in lesson would whisper to each partner. "you're the only one who knows how to do this properly"

    she got plenty of dances afterwards :D
     
  18. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    That's what I call an intermediate dancer. They can move, they know stuff, but they're sort of missing the whole point.
     
  19. twnkltoz

    twnkltoz Well-Known Member

    I found, several months into my Tango journey, that my taste in leaders started shifting. The guy who is fun because he does a lot of stuff isn't quite so desirable as the man who does less stuff but has a wonderful connection.
     
  20. AndaBien

    AndaBien Well-Known Member

    That's what I call and advanced dancer.
     

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