Discussion in 'Ballroom Dance' started by dancin_feet, Mar 10, 2004.
Originally, this was all about kissability--and I believe that it had been suggested that we brass players were more kissable than reed-men, b/c of the way we use our lips. Now that's the closest thing to a nice compliment of that sort that I've gotten in a while, and I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I'm printing it off so I can show it to people! :wink:
It had also been suggested that we were just generally hotter and more masculine. So I'm going to go with that too, instead of remembering the many years I spent trying to cruise chicks with my lovely horn playing--and getting many compliments. On my horn playing. I remember one flute player in particular I was just dying to ask out; in my year book she writes how much she's always loved my trombone playing and valued my friendship. Shoot, I shoulda been working on my dancing!
Let me just say for the record that brass players ARE mucho kissable. Don't ask me how I know. Just trust me. I know. LOL.
good point. it would have been much more acccurate for me to say that i found it exceedingly difficult to unlearn about 20 years of muscle memory. given the difficulty i had with sax, there's no way i could imagine trying to play a flute.
i regret not starting on tenor. i kinda like the ben webster kinda feathery kind of tone vs. R&B honk though.
rico jazz nowadays. and i've got a pile of old ricos i want to try and shave to see what (if anything) i can do to their sound.
trying to find the perfect reed - that'll only last for so many hours anyway!
i'm much more inclined to annoy the neighbors with my old baritone horn on holidays like july 4th.
i had more fun in drum & bugle corps. low brass players are definitely capable of twisted behavior.
A word from a non-dancing guy
As a non-dancing New Zealand male, I find all lot of what being said here to be serious generalisations and mis-truths. Since most of the guys responding are guys that enjoy dancing, it makes it hard for them to truly understand why the rest of us don't dance.
My friends and I who don't dance, don't because we fail to find the enjoyment that females and the small selection of guys (perhaps these guys are more in touch with their feminine side). We are not likely to participate in an activity we don't enjoy and the sooner females realise this, the sooner there will be harmony in the universe. Our female "dancing" friends/girlfriends understand that we don't enjoy it, don't force us to and tend to paticipate with us in activities that we all enjoy like a good game of pool. They also know that we will go dancing with them on special occasions as we are not self-centered and will put our feelings aside just so that they can partake in an activity they enjoy.
Understood, dirty_hound. You don't enjoy dancing. No problem. 8)
And yes. This is a dance website, so both men and women here are skewed toward dance insanity. We can't help it.
But here's a thought for you. Dancing with your wife/girlfriend will earn you brownie points like you never imagined possible. (Um. Brownie points, in case you don't know American slang, means bonus special treatment.) Your wife or girlfriend will appreciate your willingness to take her dancing. Think about it. Isn't it worth a try? :wink: :lol:
Re: A word from a non-dancing guy
With all due of respect...I almost jumped out of my seat when I read that guys who dance are more in touch with their feminine side.
For me, there has been anything more masculine..then dancing salsa with a woman. I hate that this perception exist. You can't be wimpy or feminine dancing salsa or you won't get to dance much. Period!!!
I'm a Christian and in scripture, men & women danced to celebrate the events in their lives(Luke 15:24-25). So dancing has always existed for both sexes. I usually refrain from bringing my Christianity to this forum..but I have to challenge this perception that men who dance are less masculine then men who don't dance.
Please don't disabuse hound of his misconceptions. The male ballroom dancers' conspiracy has worked very hard to get those misconceptions out there to limit the number of men who dance. We like getting the first pick of the women, and we'd just as soon not share that with any more men than we have to.
Wow! Definitely got to read this thread. In the meantime I may as well put in my two cents since I missed this one. I agree with dirty_hound. Guys don't dance because they don't get it. No clue as to why you would want to dance. In fact dirty_hound sounds like a capital guy being willing to dance with a friend so she has a good time. It's not like guys are on the sidelines feeling afraid of dancing, or unable to express themselves. Grinding of course is an obvious exception I would think. Hip hop may be too I don't know. If dancing is in the culture then guys are raised with it and they do get it then. Like hip hop among teens or salsa in latin countries (or cumbia or whatever). Of course in these cultures a guy dancing is very masculine. But I guess our culture doesn't get it.
EDIT: Hmmm. That sounded more combative than I meant it to. I just got in after driving on the freeway for an hour. I must still have road rage or something. I agree with you pygmalion, that guys earn major brownie points with their ladies for taking them dancing. One dancer I knew said that a woman will put up with a lot if you take her dancing twice a month. A female friend present wholoheartedly agreed with that.
Ok, lots of smiles and good thoughts, no combatants here!
Re: A word from a non-dancing guy
Actually, guys dance in order to get in touch with her feminine side. And back. Of course, if you believe that having physical contact with a woman is not manly, well then de gustibus non disputandum est ("there's no accounting for taste").
Having spent the first 48 years of my life not dancing, I can recall that the reason I didn't dance was because I had absolutely no idea how to and I remember the terrifying feeling of being totally lost when I would try.
I haven't read this entire thread, so perhaps this has already been touched on...?
I was wondering if perhaps a preference to watch may stem from the tendency for men to enjoy visual stimulation...? Not in all cases, of course, but perhaps there is a segment of men who would rather just watch the show...
It still seems like it would be more fun to be visually stimulated up close where you get to actually touch a little bit too, but to each their own, I suppose.
edit Goodness, now I see I this thread has pages and pages... probably all this has already been said. Blasted, I don't erase my post. If it don't contain anything new, just skim through it.
I met a guy at a class who had been dancing for a year, but could not keep the beat to save his life. He asked me to count for him to get started on the right beat, and I did that. Still, he just could not keep the tempo of the song... this is an impossible situation, because the roles demands that he is in charge. If I keep the beat, then I am backleading. I refused to do it, and I am not sure if he thought I was a very bad dancer or simply cruel to him... Had he been a woman, this would not have been the same problem. If I had been the leader and him the follow, we would have danced along just fine! Sometimes, I am surprised that the excess of women in partner dancing is not bigger.
I started dancing at a dance camp, where they gave a beginner's course. Before that, I had only take three classes. Most of us women did some dancing in the evenings - some more, some less. I guess most of us found one or two leaders we felt we could ask once or twice each night, and who happily danced with us sharing their drug with us and helping us getting hooked on it. (Let's forget about those who did dance with us but in such a way they made sure we did not ask them again.) Most of the men in our beginner's group did not dance in the evenings - almost only those who already were able dancers in other types of dances did even go there.
Before starting partner dancing, my stereotype image of it was it was the man's market to make his choice - humiliating for the women who do not get picked. Now, I think of the dance situation as so much more tough for the men than for the women - in each moment they risk a lot more. Indeed, both men and women ask in my nicks of the woods - I am not sure this is the whole difference though.
Why men won't dance - the complete and true story :mrgreen:
* When they are young, dancing is not seen as something manly.
* Most men have less average control over their bodies than most women. They are afraid of looking silly - indeed most of us do when we first try.
* The leader's part is much more difficult than the followers - esp. in the beginning. Alas, we ask more of the poor bastards than of the women.
* The game of dancing contains a fair amount of wanting to impress your partner, and much more so for the leader as it is him who takes the follower for a ride. If you don't think you will ever manage to be impressive, you probably won't even try. The ladies really don't need to be impressive. A nice smile and/or a nice cleavage gets you far. Men do usually not have this possibility. (I know a newbie leader who gets along fine with a smiling, talking and doing what he knows - but I see him as an exception. Most men who do start dancing don't have the nerve, but go to classes "until they dance good enough" and if they stay in their classes forever, they never will be. Or, they stand around the walls not daring to approach the ladies.)
* Partner dancing involves being physically close to persons of the opposite sex that you don't know. This takes a while to learn to handle - probably more for men. Probably one only really get past this one after one truly has felt the joy of dancing - and this takes a little skill.
Although this is in the Ballroom section, the discussion har turned pretty general. This link has been before, but find it highly relevant here: Lloyd Nicholas's Why Men Won't Dance
It is a fun theory, although I do not believe it for a minute.
Any special reason this thread is in Ballroom? Is the question why men don't do ballroom dance, or why they don't dance in general?
I'll go for the last, and add my two bits from my experience dancing mainly Lindy Hop and a little bit of Argentine Tango. My experience is that people in general don't dance. And among those who do, men are almost just as plenty as women.
In beginner classes, there seems to be some more women than men, but this evens out. And among those who dance regularly, there are just as many men as women. And actually, I've been to several Tango Lessons where women were in short order.
But this is, as I said, Tango and Lindy.
When it comes to dances like Salsa and generally shaking it to disco music, women seems to be in the majority.
I think the reason for this difference are two twings. Women seems in general to be more inclined (genetically or socially) to move to music and dance. And women seems to more often follow trends, and Salsa is a trend right now. But when dance becomes a thing of serious interest, it evens out.
Why don't guy's dance? Honey, you need to take a trip to Seattle WA USA, where there are 2 or 3 times as many leads as follows.
:!: Now I have one more reason why I should visit my cousin in Seattle as soon as possible! Does this also apply to salsa?
I took up ballroom dancing when I was 12 years old. At the time my little brother was 5. Back than everything is big sister did was very cool and so he started dancing to and he really enjoyed it to. But then he started school, as soon as the other boys found out about it, they started to call him sissy. So that was the end of dancing for him. Evenso he is grown up now, he couldn't be convinced to try it can. The last time i tried to persuade him to take up some dancing he told me he can't start dancing, since he is a man and men don't dance.
I really think it is a cultural thing. After having not danced for several years, I started to do salsa about three years ago. In most salsa venues here there are about an equal number of leads and followers. Only while the followers are mostly german women, most of the leads are either latinos or africans with only a few germans. Furthermore, the german leads get rejected more often when they ask for a dance ( I have to admit I do that to) because they don't seem to be able to get the right connection to music ( of course exceptions prove the rule).
I think if they changed the word "dancing" to something like "floor engineering to music", a lot more men would get involved. After having read this message board for over 6 months, I get a sense that many men look at dance, steps, patterns and technique in mathematical (geometrical?) terms. It's very interesting.
I, on the other hand, think he's on to something here...
This, in particular, caught my attention:
Over-generalisation, of course, but I certainly see these tendencies... The article basically goes on to say that, as the flip-side of this, men have an in-built terror of dancing badly, which is why men don't dance.
What do you guys (and gals) think?
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