General Dance Discussion > Women asking men to dance.

Discussion in 'General Dance Discussion' started by Spitfire, Oct 20, 2003.

  1. blue

    blue New Member

    This is the syndrome of finding many leaders you ask acting less nice because you are a beginner. So you pester those who are nice to you. I admit I did that - well, maybe not 7 times the same night. (Or did I?) It does not mean they are over confident in asking men to dance. It means the complete opposite.
  2. ReneeJoan

    ReneeJoan New Member

    Dear Blue:

    I think you are 100% right. Excellent, and incisive, analysis.

  3. SalsaAmore

    SalsaAmore New Member

    I think the attitude of this women in question is out of insecurity, unfortunately. I started asking guys to dance a while back and I've gotten better dances than when I use to sit and wait for guys to ask. Before asking guys to dance, many times I was asked by guys I didn't really enjoy dancing with that much. Many of the really good dancers I like to dance with don't really ask if they don't know you because out of shyness, fear of rejection or whatever. Besides, they get plenty of dances from women they know or women who ask. I've been having a great time asking and learning from these guys as well. After my initiation, when I see these guys again another night, they are less hesitant to ask me because they know I'm friendly. Most of the time the guys will dance with you if you have a nice attitude about it or will enjoy dancing with you if you have a good personality (i.e. a little smile here and there helps and a "thank you, that was really nice" sort of comment) Honestly, of all the times I've asked guys to dance since, I've gotten rejected 3 times, ouch. It kinda hurts your ego a bit, but move on to the next guy standing next to him and show him, he's not all that and it's only about the dance, dude.

    There are rules I adhere to though -- 1) Don't ask the same guy twice in a night so as to not look desperate or pursuing something other than a dance if you don't know him. 2) Be friendly & confident whoever it is you ask or dance with. 3) If after asking a guy once or a couple of times and you sense he might not enjoy dancing with you, he's arrogant or unfriendly, stop asking and let him ask you next time 4) Check out and spot good dancers who seem friendly -- not arrogant or think they are God's gift to women or the dance scene. 5) Accept dances from nice people even if they are beginners (as long as they seem like a decent person and are not sleazy) to send out good kharma and feelings and get it back in return. 6) If a guys acts too arrogant or rejects your request, don't ask him again and let him ask you next time. (Two of the 3 guys who said no to me before ask me now. They are not bad guys, just moody.) I hope this helps some of the women out there that are a little hesitant in participating in this new trend. (That's what I could think of at the moment. I might add on later if something else comes up.)

    I like this new practice of women asking men. It gives women more choices and allows us to initiate contact and make new friends where we wouldn't of had the opportunity to before when we were sitting and waiting. Enjoy the new sense of freedom we are given in this arena. Sometimes when a guy looks like he is not that happy it may not be because of you. Don't take it personally. If you are not comfortable with his attitude just take it with a grain of salt and move on to the next friendly person. It's a lot more fun for women and the men, too. Happy dancing!


  4. blue

    blue New Member

    Hi SalsaAmore, and welcome to Dance Forums!

    I think this kind of thing can be a little different in different dance communities. I ask guys twice, if I have the feeling they would like me to. Of course maybe I should let them ask the second time, but... I am thinking about the kind of situations when you look at each other and the question is kind of asked before either partner opens the mouth. This happens sometimes with people I feel I have gotten to know a little bit on the dance floor, not with people I dance with for the first time.

    To me, one song with each partner seems so little! Here, we have a local standard of two dances - then you can ask for a third. Usually you do that only if you think the other person also really enjoyed it. This tradition goes way way back, and as far as I know itis implemented to every dance we do here - except for tango, that has its tandas of a couple of songs that you usually dance with the same partner. With only one song, I think you barely have time to tune in the person.
  5. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    Welcome to df SalsaAmore. I used to have the rule of one dance with each person, but now I vary it depending on the circumstances. For instance there are some who after dancing with me one dance say thanks as if they mean they have had enough. Those are rarely ask for a second dance, and will usuallys ay thanks after the first dance, even if I feel that they want to dance more, now and then. If I connect with a person I'll dance more dances with them. If I don't have that great a dance with a person and I start getting into it at the end of the song (re: your comment about tuning in blue) I'll usually dance a second song. If my connection with a person is an absolute disaster I'll skip out after the first dance, usually.
  6. Shoe Kitty

    Shoe Kitty New Member

    Wow, lotta responses since last time I checked in. I think this is a really interesting discussion.

    A few of you have been speculating on where my friend's perspectives come from. Her ideas were so unexpected to me that I probed her a little bit, and I didn't get the impression that they were from dance insecurity but from a kind of anger or frustration. It seems she had experienced some kind of cliquishness within our dance scene and didn't feel like fighting it anymore. Having lived through high school, I certainly couldn't begrudge her those feelings. I did engage in a little friendly debate with her about it, however; and while there's no evidence of her budging at the moment, perhaps she'll feel more like asking people in later years. Like me, she has been doing this dance less than a year, and has plenty of time to evolve both her dance level and her perspectives.

    Shoe Kitty

    (the idea of getting groped because of being the initiator was really wild, by the way!) :shock:
  7. SalsaAmore

    SalsaAmore New Member

    Anger and frustration due to cliquishness.....I understand her feelings around cliques, I really don't care for them much myself. But once you've proven yourself, that invisible barrier tends to drop. I never use to ask guys from these cliquish groups. But the barrier was lifted when I started feeling more confident about my dancing and how I interacted socially. But, it doesn't quite explain why she doesn't ask at all.

    It was also mentioned that she didn't like the attitude because of a feeling that she didn't follow well. I think it's helpful to checkout and choose fellow dancers at the same skill level or little beyond. Ask guys below your skill level if it helps to boost your confidence a bit. It's okay to ask dancers that are much more advanced because some guys are really nice about it, once. But, then you do risk the chance of attitude if you really had a lousy time following the first time. So knowing your own limits is kinda good.

    I hope more women begin to feel more confident about asking guys to dance either it be insecurity from dance or social stigma. But it does take a little time to muster up the courage to start asking. It's understandable. We have been conditioned to think that it wasn't okay for a lifetime, but it is the 21st century and we need to break out of that mode of the lady in waiting. That's pretty boring stuff. Besides, you'll be missing out on a lot of fun dancing with what could be new friends you wouldn't otherwise have connected with if you were just sitting and waiting.
  8. SDsalsaguy

    SDsalsaguy Administrator Staff Member

    Welcome to the Dance Forums SalsaAmore!
  9. MapleLeaf Salsero

    MapleLeaf Salsero New Member

    Does Aphrodite have a soft spot for men who helplessly admire cleavages? :wink:

    The writer and not the director, hmm... interesting.
  10. MapleLeaf Salsero

    MapleLeaf Salsero New Member

    Interesting perspective Blue.
  11. newbie

    newbie Well-Known Member

    I think I agree with "the woman" whose opinions were relayed by ShoeKitty in post #1, sort of I feel that by inviting I'm taking charge, and I have to guarantee that it will be a pleasant dance for my partner, and if my level is below hers, it can't be pleasant; she may find it smooth, easy, relaxing, but basically it will be boring for her. I never invite a better skilled woman.
    (Well, some weeks ago during a all-dance festival a nice cha-cha was played by the DJ, and being a foreigner in the local community I invited a random woman, and afterwards some people told me that she was the cha-cha teacher. Of course, had I known this, I would have invited anybody else)
  12. Sagitta

    Sagitta Well-Known Member

    I have noticed that there are some who are known as good who sit out a lot. I have chatted with people and they have told me that they wish they were asked more by others as well. That there is enjoyment to be had with simple dancing too. I ask dance teachers to dance. My tzke on this coming, secondhand, but from the mouths of people like your cha-cha teacher newbie.
  13. tj

    tj New Member

    There was a Performer/Instructor that I recognized from the Philly Salsa Congress last summer, who was visiting DC for last Saturday's party. He hardly danced at all, but I tried giving him my props that I recognized him, and liked how he danced.

    I think the really good dancers dislike rejection even more than the ones just starting out, and would rather sit the night out than have to put up with it.

    Unfortunate, honestly.
  14. SalsaAmore

    SalsaAmore New Member

    Hi Blue, Sagitta, SD & Squirrel,

    Thanks! It's nice to be on board.

    Blue & Sagitta -- On the rule of not asking guys you don't know twice, yes, it really is about the particular situation you're in. With any of the general rules I suggested, it's more for those who haven't asked before and need a little safety guideline to avoid feeling rejected or bad.

    I have asked a guy twice in one night that I've never danced with before. He is a great dancer and really sweeeet. I felt he enjoyed the dance and that he is rather shy. So I asked him again and he was delighted. You both seem like you already know what it's about. So, I think, in a sense, you make up your own rules as you go along.
  15. dancin_feet

    dancin_feet New Member

    There is only one way to get better and that is to practice with people who are more skilled. I can't help but think you are shooting yourself in the foot and sabotaging your dancing by not inviting more experienced dancers to dance with you. Sure it is scary and you may feel an obligation to give a perfect, mistake free performance, but in reality we all started somewhere. Most people are very accepting of new dancers, and if you are open to learn from them, you will find dancing a lot more fun, even if you stuff up. What does it matter? If you find someone who is less accomodating, don't ask them again.
  16. squirrel

    squirrel New Member

    Welcome, SalsaAmore!

    Yes, I suppose great dancers are the same as the rest of us, at least most of them are... and for them it is as hard as for us to invite unknown people... they have their comfort areas as well!
  17. rails

    rails New Member

    What planet did you just arrive from SalsaAmore? This is San Francisco. Women don't ask men to dance at salsa venues. When I go out for lindy hop and balboa I usually get asked to dance a few times a night, but salsa? Only women I already know.
  18. clave

    clave New Member

    Hmm, interesting observation. I danced salsa in San Francisco only once during a short visit. It was a Saturday night at Cafe Cocomo, and my impression matches rails' very closely: few good follows, they come in cliques, most of them refused me, and of the few that didn't most didn't act very friendly. Big city attitude? Could be, but it was much worse than LA which has every right to be the capital of attitude. Perhaps I should have chosen a different venue?
  19. danceguy

    danceguy New Member

    Now now rails, I've had a few women ask me to dance at Salsa venues in SF...and all 2 or 3 of them were complete strangers! As I recall one was very drunk and didn't really know how to dance, but hey, she STILL ASKED! :lol:

    SalsaAmore - I hope there's a few more ladies from whatever planet you are from...definitely a rarity! :p

    clave - In my experience I've found Cocomo's to be the most crowded, unfriendly venue in SF...and you said it was WORSE than LA? Hmm... :?
  20. clave

    clave New Member

    Of course you need to know where to go in LA--this is true for every scene--but in my experience the places that cater to diehard dancers attract enough advanced friendly dancers for the cliques to not matter. I'm talking about Steven's, Conga Room, Tapas. From a dancer's point of view the crowd at Cocomo's reminded me of the Mayan, despite the facts that they played only salsa and that the band was superb. Weird.

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