Beginner Study Both Vals + Milonga Advisable?

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#21
Melodic and rhythmic tango is different
Milonga is different
Vals is different

They are all different in music and in dancing, embrace looks the same but it's not.

I strongly believe it's too early for learning milonga and vals. But as an introductionary level I feel it could be possible.
Some light valses and milongas so the dancer can be acquainted with the music.
I believe that they could be more motivated to carry on with AT, and say that "advanced" musicality.
Beginners often want advanced stuff, so teachers must fullfil they wishes in a most delicate way suitable for them. :cool:
IMHO the more they know the more they will appreciate really advanced dancers.
 

JohnEm

Well-Known Member
#22
Melodic and rhythmic tango is different
Milonga is different
Vals is different
Well, yes.
Though I would like examples of melodic and rhythmic tangos.

But from now on . . . you've guessed . . . I disagree.


They are all different in music and in dancing, embrace looks the same but it's not.
This seems rather dogmatic to me.
Your embrace may vary, mine does not and yet
my partners feel they are danced very differently.
I strongly believe it's too early for learning milonga and vals. But as an introductionary level I feel it could be possible.
Some light valses and milongas so the dancer can be acquainted with the music.
So far so good.
I believe that they could be more motivated to carry on with AT, and say that "advanced" musicality.
Beginners often want advanced stuff, so teachers must fullfil they wishes in a most delicate way suitable for them. :cool:
Why must teachers fulfil diverse wishes - the main wish of beginners
is to learn to dance. Teachers should be teaching in the best possible
way to get students dancing. And that surely that is teaching
people how to dance and encouraging them to dance. "Advanced"
musicality (whatever that is) just gets in the way. Keep it simple.
IMHO the more they know the more they will appreciate really advanced dancers.
The more they are told is not necessarily the more they know.
Cognitive overload is a piece of teaching jargon I've just heard here,
that is a recipe for it and the confusion that follows. Keep it simple.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#25
Well, yes.
Though I would like examples of melodic and rhythmic tangos.
melodic tango - canaro, di sarli, fresedo
rhytmic tango - donato, biagi, d'arienzo
Would you like to like to put link with the songs?

This seems rather dogmatic to me.
Your embrace may vary, mine does not and yet
my partners feel they are danced very differently.
My embrace and posture varies cause I cannot be as fast and punctuate with tender embrace on fast rhithmical songs.
I cannot change direction fast with tender embrace.
Regarding that my embrace is not the same, and my dancing is not the same.

Why must teachers fulfil diverse wishes - the main wish of beginners
is to learn to dance. Teachers should be teaching in the best possible
way to get students dancing. And that surely that is teaching
people how to dance and encouraging them to dance. "Advanced"
musicality (whatever that is) just gets in the way. Keep it simple.
My experience told me that people want to attractive figures from the dance floor, but cannot recognize musicality in dancing.
I would introduce simple elements from various music so they can actually recognize, interprete and eventually dance on various types of music.
The more they are told is not necessarily the more they know.
Cognitive overload is a piece of teaching jargon I've just heard here,
that is a recipe for it and the confusion that follows. Keep it simple.
It's seems that we had misunderstanding here.
I would like only to introduce basics of each dance so when they come dancing they can dance all milonga with the elements they know and so they don't struggle with the music.
 

UKDancer

Well-Known Member
#27
They want to put 4 years of learning dancing in 1 month. :rocker:
Yes: that's about right. They certainly don't want to do more than about four classes, and expect to be taught all the tango fantasia movements that they see Vincent & Flavia dance on 'Strictly Come Dancing' in that time. A few weeks down the road, and most classes seem to be attended by people whose hobby it is to attend dance classes - that's what they do (and I wouldn't want to deny them their pleasure), but they don't go dancing - or at least - I never see them.
 

AndaBien

Well-Known Member
#28
... They certainly don't want to do more than about four classes, and expect to be taught all the tango fantasia movements ...
After a few years of teaching tango, or trying to, I realized that everyone wants to dance the tango, but only a few are willing to learn.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#29
"After a few years of teaching tango, or trying to, I realized that everyone wants to dance the tango, but only a few are willing to learn. "


I want that as my epitaph...
 

Gssh

Well-Known Member
#31
I am pretty much with Jantango here - tango (and milonga and vals) exists only at the milonga, in the music.
If you are going to milongas, and feel comfortable with the way your dance fits the music during the tango tandas, but when you dance the milonga and vals tanda you are unsatisfied with your musicality then doing extra classes in milonga and vals will probably help.
If you are as happy/unhappy with how your tango feels, and how it feels when you "fake" milonga and vals by dancing them "flat" (i.e. without picking up the vals waltzing or the milonga swinging - which is actually perfectly fine, and i often think more people should throw in a few moments of flat dancing into their dance and explore the other rhythms in vals and milonga besides the obvious ones), then more social dancing and listening to the music, and working on the mechanics of tango in tango classes gives you probably more bang for your buck.

Another thought - this also depends on how you are dancing - i personally at the moment prefer a parallel close embrace with some weight sharing. And i keep this preference in tango, milonga, and vals. I see quite a few people who dance different embraces in the different styles - e.g like JohnEm seems to do - in that case your perspective might be very different from mine.

Gssh
 

newbie

Well-Known Member
#32
By the way the OP only mentions vals and milonga and asks if it's good to learn both at the same time. Milonga and vals. Not tango.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#33
By the way the OP only mentions vals and milonga and asks if it's good to learn both at the same time. Milonga and vals. Not tango.
He asked many questions if you read it carefully.
He asked to learn vals and milonga after learning 2 month with a year break.

The only benefit he can acquire to get familiar with the music, nothing more.
And maybe when going to regular milonga that can dance to all music, with difficulties. ;)
 

Gssh

Well-Known Member
#34
By the way the OP only mentions vals and milonga and asks if it's good to learn both at the same time. Milonga and vals. Not tango.
You are right - i tend to see tango mostly as a social dance, so the idea of learning only milonga and vals seems a bit strange to me, but i guess if you want to perform and compete(? i don't really follow tango competitions - are there vals and milonga categories?) it might make sense.

In that case i think there should be no problem learning both vals and milonga simultaneously - the rhythms and dances are different enough that there should be only minimal confusion/bleed over.

Gssh
 

jantango

Active Member
#35
What adult tries to learn two languages at the same time? Most can't find the time to practice one, let alone two at the same time. This is a case of getting started late in life with dance and using the fast track to the finish line. I've heard so many ballroom dancer say how they are going to "pick up" another dance quickly. Tango is not in that category. It's foreign music first that no one knows but never takes the time to learn.

Milonga and Vals classes at the same time. It's too much to do at the same time. A teacher who encourages it is teaching for the money, not for students to learn to dance.
 

JohnEm

Well-Known Member
#36
I am pretty much with Jantango here - tango (and milonga and vals) exists only at the milonga, in the music.

Another thought - this also depends on how you are dancing - i personally at the moment prefer a parallel close embrace with some weight sharing. And i keep this preference in tango, milonga, and vals. I see quite a few people who dance different embraces in the different styles - e.g like JohnEm seems to do - in that case your perspective might be very different from mine.
Gssh
Briefly to correct your impression, here is what I actually wrote earlier:
Your embrace may vary, mine does not and yet
my partners feel they are danced very differently.
As you say, the dance exists in the music (and in the moment).
The feel of the dance changes according to whatever the music
inspires, the embrace itself does not. It is parallel and connected
at the chest, avoiding the argument about weight sharing!

See Post No. 25 for the full context.
 

Gssh

Well-Known Member
#37
Briefly to correct your impression, here is what I actually wrote earlier:
Apologies - i slipped when looking up the author of a post - i was actually referring to post #25, too - i wanted to refer to Mladenacs statement:

My embrace and posture varies cause I cannot be as fast and punctuate with tender embrace on fast rhithmical songs.
I cannot change direction fast with tender embrace.
Regarding that my embrace is not the same, and my dancing is not the same.
Gssh
 

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