Dancesport photography

Warren J. Dew

Well-Known Member
#21
If you want to automate sales of image files, rather than having to handle each sale individually, you'd want the full res image on the server so it could be automatically delivered to the customer at the time of the online purchase.
You'd also have to be willing to part with more rights than most photographers are willing to do. No one is going to pay for an electronic file without a pretty free license to make copies, serve it from their own servers, post it on their web site, use it as desktop wallpaper, etc. Don't forget that every time someone views a web site containing a photo, that's a separate copy of that photo being transmitted to the viewer's computer.
 
#23
I apologize this is off-topic, but could you explain something else to me about how the image galleries work. I understand server space as well as bandwidth. What I don't understand is the need to upload full-resolution photos. You can easily automate resizing to get the photos down to web-friendly size. Then you are using less serve space and bandwidth, AND it loads faster for everyone. I'm always astounded at how slow the photography sites are, but if you're saying the photos are being loaded from full-resolution, then it makes sense why.
Lol.. Full resolution can be over 50MB per image. When I post them, I upload them at a size which is just enough to print online. The images end up at about 10% of their original size. If I opened an image in Photoshop and saved it again as a PSD, my files would be roughly 250MB (without adjusting them).

Storage on my computer may run around 200GB per competition. At Capital this past year, I shot 3500 images specifically for use by John Depalma. I had to go buy extra CF cards because 80GB was not enough.
 
#25
Lol.. Full resolution can be over 50MB per image. When I post them, I upload them at a size which is just enough to print online. The images end up at about 10% of their original size. If I opened an image in Photoshop and saved it again as a PSD, my files would be roughly 250MB (without adjusting them).

Storage on my computer may run around 200GB per competition. At Capital this past year, I shot 3500 images specifically for use by John Depalma. I had to go buy extra CF cards because 80GB was not enough.
Yes, if you are dealing with TIFFs and RAW the size is huge. (I've done many a processing and re-touching from shoots) I did not think you would uploading THOSE... :)
 

CANI

Active Member
#26
For anyone who has not seen Cantski's photos, you should definitely check out his website. He's a fantastic photographer and has a knack for catching amazing moments.
I hadn't been on his site in a while -- and woah -- what an improvement again!! (It was great before, but even better now!). I agree with your statement about a knack for catching amazing moments. I looked today for the first time at his ballroom dance photos (specifically the ones from Capital on his www. ryankennerphotography.com site) -- Wowza! Very impressive. And they loaded so quickly as well to see one photo right after the other! :applause:
 
#27
Ok - back from teaching.

Ireniecat, I only use online printing services, I would have to hire an additional body and bring more equipment to offer printing at an event. As it is, I bring a fully loaded server to host my viewing software, as well as a wireless/wired network, and multiple viewing stations. Once you include my lighting equipment, it becomes overwhelming.


You'd also have to be willing to part with more rights than most photographers are willing to do. No one is going to pay for an electronic file without a pretty free license to make copies, serve it from their own servers, post it on their web site, use it as desktop wallpaper, etc. Don't forget that every time someone views a web site containing a photo, that's a separate copy of that photo being transmitted to the viewer's computer.
I deal with this by offering two options:

Small JPEG for online use only (if someone prints, they are violating our agreement... the quality is only enough to print a 4x6 if they did though).

Large JPEG unlimited personal (non-commercial) use including printing. File size is enough to print an fairly good size image. Obviously this has a higher cost.
 

etp777

Active Member
#28
Thanks Cantski, will definitely reach out to you on this. Both her domain and her current photo service are expiring, so we're looking to renew. Ididn't know that number until earlier today, but definitely hurt me to read too. That being said, I figured it was definitely relevant to the discussion, even if I'd already pointed her to some cheaper services.

Also, as always, love your work. I've said for years there's a difference between someone who's just a photographer, and someone who's a photographer and an artist. And fiance doesn't shoot ballroom, so I don't have to feel bad. ;)
 
#29
Ok, so just because I am about to print a few copies of these two images... I decided I wanted to post them here for you to enjoy as well. :)

You will obviously recognize the couple in Image 1. I actually gave them an 12x18 print of this image at the Yankee Classic.



The couple in Image 2 is a youth couple from Dance Republic in Boston. I believe I shot this at one of Brown Universities competitions.
 
#30
As it is, I bring a fully loaded server to host my viewing software, as well as a wireless/wired network, and multiple viewing stations. Once you include my lighting equipment, it becomes overwhelming.
Since you're bringing that equipment, why not try Eye-Fi cards and see if it cuts a step out of your workflow.
 

Lioness

Well-Known Member
#31
Ok, so just because I am about to print a few copies of these two images... I decided I wanted to post them here for you to enjoy as well. :)

You will obviously recognize the couple in Image 1. I actually gave them an 12x18 print of this image at the Yankee Classic.



The couple in Image 2 is a youth couple from Dance Republic in Boston. I believe I shot this at one of Brown Universities competitions.
Lovely...they're stunning.

I looked at your website too...I like how the ballroom section of your gallery has a URL that includes animals...
 
#33
...
FILE SIZE DISCUSSION:
1) I typically shoot JPEGS at a competition... No need to shoot RAW unless you really don't know your lighting or color-balance.... Or need to make serious high-resolution images. FILE SIZE IS ROUGHLY 25MB
***I only shoot raw when I expect to make adjustments in the future. Weddings, Fine-Art, Fashion, Real-Estate, etc...***
...
Woah - what are you shooting these days? The RAW file size on my 18Mp Canon 7D are 25MB. Highest resolution JPGs are anywhere from 4-7 depending on content.

-wc
 
#34
You'd also have to be willing to part with more rights than most photographers are willing to do. No one is going to pay for an electronic file without a pretty free license to make copies, serve it from their own servers, post it on their web site, use it as desktop wallpaper, etc. Don't forget that every time someone views a web site containing a photo, that's a separate copy of that photo being transmitted to the viewer's computer.
Nature of the beast, I guess. I sell the occasional image through a web site which specializes in photos of Martha's Vineyard subjects. There I limit the file size and sell only JPGs. People are referred directly to me for anything else. The volume is so low that I don't worry about the manual processing involved. The web site operator sends me my cut of the $ via paypal.
 
#35
Since you're bringing that equipment, why not try Eye-Fi cards and see if it cuts a step out of your workflow.
EyeFi only comes in SD form factor. Most prosumer and professional DSLRs still use CF cards. The import from the card may be time consuming, but it doesn't require constant attention so you can do other things like have breakfast or a walk in the park while it's happening.

-wc
 

Warren J. Dew

Well-Known Member
#36
Nature of the beast, I guess. I sell the occasional image through a web site which specializes in photos of Martha's Vineyard subjects. There I limit the file size and sell only JPGs. People are referred directly to me for anything else. The volume is so low that I don't worry about the manual processing involved. The web site operator sends me my cut of the $ via paypal.
I don't have any problem with limiting the size, as long as the customer knows what they're getting. I suspect most people who might be in the market for buying photos online are thinking of displaying them online, not printing them, so they don't need high resolution anyway.

If I buy a dance picture of myself, though, I'm going to want to be able to give that to, say, someone I'm doing a show for, so they can use it for publicity. That's a commercial use, even if I'm doing the show for free. I don't want to have to bother with special negotiations with the photographer if that happens.

That argument might not apply to your photos, but I think it does apply to most of those selling photos at competitions, where the primary market is people who are looking for photos of themselves, not just generic pretty photos.

Edit: maybe to put it another way, I think most of the market for photos from competitions is not for photos from photographers who consider themselves artists and their photos their personal artistic creations, but rather for photos of particular subjects from photographers who are merely making records of the artistic creations made by the dancers.
 
#37
...
Edit: maybe to put it another way, I think most of the market for photos from competitions is not for photos from photographers who consider themselves artists and their photos their personal artistic creations, but rather for photos of particular subjects from photographers who are merely making records of the artistic creations made by the dancers.
I'm definitely of the latter school. When I shoot ballroom subjects, it's for dancers who want to see to what extent their efforts to produce visual art have succeeded.
 
#38
EyeFi only comes in SD form factor. Most prosumer and professional DSLRs still use CF cards. The import from the card may be time consuming, but it doesn't require constant attention so you can do other things like have breakfast or a walk in the park while it's happening.

-wc
Canon does have a wireless device for their cameras that allows you to wirelessly stream your images over a local network to your computer... But it is very slow. Waaaay to slow for sporting events.
 
#39
I'm definitely of the latter school. When I shoot ballroom subjects, it's for dancers who want to see to what extent their efforts to produce visual art have succeeded.
Interesting topic. It is quite interesting to see what people focus on when they shoot their subjects.

When I shoot for myself, I shoot purely to capture the physicality and emotions of each dancer. However, when I am a vendor at a competition, I most focus on shooting what White Chacha describes above.
 
#40
Interesting topic. It is quite interesting to see what people focus on when they shoot their subjects.

When I shoot for myself, I shoot purely to capture the physicality and emotions of each dancer. However, when I am a vendor at a competition, I most focus on shooting what White Chacha describes above.
As a consumer, I would be much more interested in purchasing photos that are more expressive and subject to the photographer's artistic interpretation, rather than the "traditional" ballroom photos. If I want to see the results of my dancing or just document that I indeed danced, I'll purchase a video.
 

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