following or 'dancing the woman's role'?

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#22
just tryin' to lighten the mood y'know.
Yeah, I know. I'm just not so sure that the women know.


This emotional connection .......seems like a bunch of nonsense.
Yup that's how I see it......:D
For those of us who experience it, it's why people decide to learn Spanish so they can go to BsAs to experience it more often, it's why we can get so fanatical about things, it's why some will even abandon their friends and family to move to BsAs.

(I guess it makes us sort of like an addict on crack.)

;)



OK, maybe that was a little over the top, but I'm trying to lighten the mood too.

 

UKDancer

Well-Known Member
#24
I'm curious, when dancing a tanda, have you ever had the experience (it's an emotional experience), where the steps cease to be important, and the embrace (and moving as one) becomes the important part of the dance?
Get this and you get what tango is all about.
Well yes, but there was no need to shout. Within broad limits, I couldn't care less about the steps, and more than once have enjoyed very satisfying dances with complete novices.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#25
For those of us who experience it, it's why people decide to learn Spanish so they can go to BsAs to experience it more often, it's why we can get so fanatical about things, it's why some will even abandon their friends and family to move to BsAs.

(I guess it makes us sort of like an addict on crack.)

;)

OK, maybe that was a little over the top, but I'm trying to lighten the mood too.


yeah i know... I just think its getting way too serious for my taste....

I just dance ..what happens..... happens, then its over.......
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#26
I'm curious, when dancing a tanda, have you ever had the experience (it's an emotional experience), where the steps cease to be important, and the embrace (and moving as one) becomes the important part of the dance?

Get this and you get what tango is all about.
Well yes, but there was no need to shout. Within broad limits, I couldn't care less about the steps, and more than once have enjoyed very satisfying dances with complete novices.
Do you think most everyone experiences this? I think a lot of people do not, and that is the source of the great disconnect between people in tango.
 

UKDancer

Well-Known Member
#28
Do you think most everyone experiences this? I think a lot of people do not, and that is the source of the great disconnect between people in tango.
Sadly, I don't think that many do, but it is impossible to know.

My own theory is that very few tango students get to grips with tango music. They can't (or at least, don't) connect with the music as an equal partner in the dance, and so they are bound also to fail to connect with their dance partner. If the steps are considered important, there probably wasn't much else in the dance ...
 
#30
Do you think most everyone experiences this? I think a lot of people do not, and that is the source of the great disconnect between people in tango.
I am more optimistic. I think that most follows respond well to forgetting the steps and dancing on an emotional level. Most will let themselves enjoy the flow of emotions. Its just that the tear stains on our shirts can be embaressing.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#31
But there is usually a limited opportunity for the follower to deviate from the leader's intent, without becoming stumbly or bumpy.
Limited opportunity for outright deviation, yes, but almost unlimited for her to add her own flair, and extensive for her to subtly tweak things (minor changes to timing, etc). Except when the guy is so bound-and-determined that he.is.in.charge.of.the.dance.PERIOD, to the point of not even liking embellishments. It happens, it's patronising, and it sucks. (And, IME, the guys generally are nowhere near as good as they think they are. I always wonder if it's an issue of lack-of-skill being dressed up as a preference.)
 

JohnEm

Well-Known Member
#32
Limited opportunity for outright deviation, yes, but almost unlimited for her to add her own flair, and extensive for her to subtly tweak things (minor changes to timing, etc). Except when the guy is so bound-and-determined that he.is.in.charge.of.the.dance.PERIOD, to the point of not even liking embellishments. It happens, it's patronising, and it sucks. (And, IME, the guys generally are nowhere near as good as they think they are. I always wonder if it's an issue of lack-of-skill being dressed up as a preference.)
Oh I see - your partner dances for you and you dance for yourself.
Or maybe for the audience?

Nice.

That's not tango.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#33
Limited opportunity for outright deviation, yes, but almost unlimited for her to add her own flair, and extensive for her to subtly tweak things (minor changes to timing, etc). Except when the guy is so bound-and-determined that he.is.in.charge.of.the.dance.PERIOD, to the point of not even liking embellishments. It happens, it's patronising, and it sucks. (And, IME, the guys generally are nowhere near as good as they think they are. I always wonder if it's an issue of lack-of-skill being dressed up as a preference.)
I had the most amazing milonga last night, and El Portenito will never be the same. Who was leading became irrelevant because we were playing so much inside the music, listening to each other, but at such speed there wasn't anytime to think, just feel what's happening.
I was steering us around the dance floor..but that was about the extent of what was being led. :D

I have to say it was real high octane dancing, and I don't think many leaders or followers could do this, but I dont see why they couldnt learn some of the skills that makes this possible.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#34
I had the most amazing milonga last night, and El Portenito will never be the same. Who was leading became irrelevant because we were playing so much inside the music, listening to each other, but at such speed there wasn't anytime to think, just feel what's happening.
I was steering us around the dance floor..but that was about the extent of what was being led. :D

I have to say it was real high octane dancing, and I don't think many leaders or followers could do this, but I dont see why they couldnt learn some of the skills that makes this possible.
Wow. See, and that's so far beyond what I was even thinking about. Awesome for you if it worked and you liked it, which seems to be the case!

I confess that I don't have near enough skill for that (which could have to do with why it didn't cross my mind). I was thinking about more mundane sorts of things--like simple foot crosses in front/behind in the course of a step, or moving softly & fluidly v. sharp and "tense", or suggesting pauses.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#35
I confess that I don't have near enough skill for that (which could have to do with why it didn't cross my mind). I was thinking about more mundane sorts of things--like simple foot crosses in front/behind in the course of a step, or moving softly & fluidly v. sharp and "tense", or suggesting pauses.
I think these are good possibilities.. I think Mila Vigdorova introduced the idea in a workshop of slowing down the man's forward step then reversing it.

Leaders need to learn listening skills first. I get clear braking signals from followers if I'm heading too close to another couple. It seems obvious to me that they can change direction of the step, but it needs to be done smoothly, and its not going to be everyones cup of tea.
You need to be confident as a follower and secure in yourself as a leader.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#38
Limited opportunity for outright deviation, yes, but almost unlimited for her to add her own flair, and extensive for her to subtly tweak things (minor changes to timing, etc). Except when the guy is so bound-and-determined that he.is.in.charge.of.the.dance.PERIOD, to the point of not even liking embellishments. It happens, it's patronising, and it sucks. (And, IME, the guys generally are nowhere near as good as they think they are. I always wonder if it's an issue of lack-of-skill being dressed up as a preference.)
I think you have a point here. I suspect that most men (and probably most women, for that matter) likely have a preference for doing stuff that they are good at.

There is another thing for leaders to consider. If we get good enough at our preferred style, maybe the women won't get bored, and thus won't feel the need to change what we are doing.
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#39
I had the most amazing milonga last night, and El Portenito will never be the same. Who was leading became irrelevant because we were playing so much inside the music, listening to each other, but at such speed there wasn't anytime to think, just feel what's happening.
I was steering us around the dance floor..but that was about the extent of what was being led. :D

I have to say it was real high octane dancing, and I don't think many leaders or followers could do this, but I dont see why they couldnt learn some of the skills that makes this possible.
Show off.

 

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