Getting criticised on my tango walk by a newbie!

#42
Misspelling or is there actually a concept like this? I only use the term step projection. But, of course we also do control the axis of our dance partners..
I know that it is not universal language, but I call it projecting the axis because I can't think of a better way to say it. What I am talking about is the concept of when the lead presents his or her axis to the follow with each step. Some tango dancers use compression to do this, others use tension (tensing up the axis), others use grounded steps, still others use collection.
 
#43
Maybe you might turn it around... instead of responding to her 'critique' as if it was something YOU need to fix, simply say "Let's see why you are not getting it? If you feel x, then you need to figure out why you feel as if it is not coming from me"? Realistically, beginners have such poor understanding and such undeveloped senses that you might (if she actually can over time 'get it') be able to make her more sensitive to what is really happening! I dance abllroom, and the most common 'critique' I get from beginners is along the lines of 'I don't feel your lead like xxxx's' when xxxx is a clumsy and rough guy who uses his arms and no body movement. Beginners many times mistake brute force for a 'lead'..
funny and true! I think that is happening --she told me to press my leg betweens hers forcefully

all good - next time I will mention I don't stage tango
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#47
she told me to press my leg betweens hers forcefully
This, I believe (or perhaps hope), is her interpretation of something that can happen when you are moving somewhere between "two tracks" and "three tracks." You can hit a position where you are basically stepping "between" the woman's legs.
This can happen when you are dancing a very connected, apilado style, in my experience (and training!). The contact is more outer thigh to inner thigh, rather than "between the legs." The use of "disassociation" is instrumental in having this happen, and is, I would say, a very precise, not to be overused, sort of thing.
 

Zoopsia59

Well-Known Member
#48
In my experience, advanced dancers, leaders or followers, never suggest to their partners how they should dance. They just shut up and dance. It's a body language communication, not a verbal one.
I was being snarky. I wasn't seriously suggesting that after one year, doling out unsolicited criticism is ok.
 

LKSO

Active Member
#50
If a teacher teaches that there is a right way and a wrong way, then newbies will think there is a right way and a wrong way. This is very prevalent if class material is about steps. Steps have no place in social tango, but it's taught as it is social tango. If it were stage tango, then these newbies would have a point.
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#51
..newbies will think there is a right way and a wrong way..
You´ve got a point here. Only want to add, that girls very often learn in a different way (here in my hometown anyway): guys use to question almost everything, they tend to change the teacher and try to learn different styles.
 

opendoor

Well-Known Member
#52
MTS said:
od said:
I only use the term step projection. But, of course we also do control the axis of our dance partners.
..I call it projecting the axis because I can't think of a better way to say it. ..when the lead presents his or her axis to the follow with each step. Some tango dancers use compression to do this, others use tension (tensing up the axis), others use grounded steps, still others use collection.
Interesting point and I can understand you. My use of projecting also involves the possibility of retrieving the move. So for me (step-) projection ends not until the final weight shift has been done. When leading (regardless of whether by torso, or grounded steps) this retrieval isn´t always guaranteed. Also want to add, that I also lead with my arms, fingers, head, and of course by Naviera´s more intentional principle called 'opening the space'. Only think of soltadas, you cannot control it any more when it has been lead!
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#53
I've lost count of how many times this has happened to me. I'd say 90% of the times I've gotten "corrected" by a partner in class (regardless of whether I was leading or following) this was the result. I've learned (in class or lesson situations) to not respond directly, but immediately start seeking out the instructor for help.
i have come across the reverse problem..too many guys teeling a newbie woman what to do. One got very confused because she was receiving instruction completely the opposite of what i was teaching, but I didn't discover this till afterwards. sadly she didn't come back. :(
On a general note, Rebecca Shulman said something wonderful in a class I took from her: "You know what's not sexy in Tango? Talking. Talking is not sexy. Work it out without words, and if you can't, ask me for help."
. .
I agree with this. there are a lot of people who just ought to 'shut the f*** up'
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#54
i have come across the reverse problem..too many guys teeling a newbie woman what to do. One got very confused because she was receiving instruction completely the opposite of what i was teaching, but I didn't discover this till afterwards. sadly she didn't come back. :(
And many followers seek advice from experienced leaders and they get overwhelmed.
It might not to be a problem when she ask for a specific thing from the same style,
but asking many guys they get confused what's right and tired of too much information.

We all want to be advanced as soon as possible. :oops:
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#56
i have come across the reverse problem..too many guys teeling a newbie woman what to do. One got very confused because she was receiving instruction completely the opposite of what i was teaching, but I didn't discover this till afterwards. sadly she didn't come back. :(

I agree with this. there are a lot of people who just ought to 'shut the f*** up'
Yep. When I was new, all the leaders jumped on the chance to "teach" me and gave me widely varying instructions. Someone wanted apilado, some wanted a lighter connection, and no matter what they preached, "this is the only correct way to dance it." I seem to have reached a level (or at least I've been around long enough) that they don't do that anymore and I dance how I please, adjusting to my partner as much as I'm able. Now I hear from new girls the same complaint and offer my sympathy. It can be very confusing and vexing.
 
#57
Yep. When I was new, all the leaders jumped on the chance to "teach" me and gave me widely varying instructions. Someone wanted apilado, some wanted a lighter connection, and no matter what they preached, "this is the only correct way to dance it." I seem to have reached a level (or at least I've been around long enough) that they don't do that anymore and I dance how I please, adjusting to my partner as much as I'm able. Now I hear from new girls the same complaint and offer my sympathy. It can be very confusing and vexing.
And that is yet another reason why one should not "offer help" -- most of the time it does not help, it does quite the opposite.
 

Gssh

Well-Known Member
#58
Now I hear from new girls the same complaint and offer my sympathy. It can be very confusing and vexing.
Once i realized that there are at least a dozen different tangos that are more or less compatible with each other, and that the best practice was to assume that every dancer was dancing their tango absolutely correctly i had a much better time at milongas. I still reserve the right to like what i do best ;) , but once i started to stop thinking about it in terms of "correct/incorrect" and started to think about it in terms of "matching style/mismatching style" i was much more at peace with not liking to dance with some people, and with some people not enjoying dancing with me.
It does not solve that problem at practicas when i am activly looking and giving feedback and i am working on stuff - i have basically stopped going to practicas and instead rent a dancefloor once or twice a week, and we work on stuff, and throw in a few privates when there is a good opportunity to make sure that there is an outside perspective and we don't end up with too much group think.

Gssh
 

Bailamosdance

Well-Known Member
#59
As a non 'argentine' dancer I have a question... if everyone is talking about how Arg Tango has 'no steps' and is a 'feeling', then why is everyone constantly debating 'accuracy' and 'authenticity'? If I go to an Arg Tango Milonga, why is there a need for me to do what everyone else is doing? In my ballroom world, there are levels of quality, but at the social level nobody is expected to 'perform'...

No animosity here, just need to know;
 

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#60
As a non 'argentine' dancer I have a question... if everyone is talking about how Arg Tango has 'no steps' and is a 'feeling', then why is everyone constantly debating 'accuracy' and 'authenticity'? If I go to an Arg Tango Milonga, why is there a need for me to do what everyone else is doing? In my ballroom world, there are levels of quality, but at the social level nobody is expected to 'perform'...

No animosity here, just need to know;
IMO, not everyone subscribes to the belief that it's just a feeling. Some people are mostly into the embrace, while others are mostly into the steps. Then there are other people (like me) who would like to dance one way to some songs and another way to other songs, (depending on how the music moves them).

This is one of the main reasons tango people spend so much time arguing and complaining (I think).

In Buenos Aires, various milongas will cater to one style or another, while in many other places, you get people with differing styles / philosophies at the same milonga.
 

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