Getting criticised on my tango walk by a newbie!

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#81
That's because a lot of followers cross automatically, so we don't really have to do much to lead it with them. That's one of the things I'll normally test out with someone I haven't danced with before, (what does it take to get her to cross).
And if we don't cross sans lead, we're instructed, "You were supposed to cross there." :|
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#83
Than tell him what you felt. If you didn't feel you couldn't follow.
And try to communicate how both of you instructed to lead and follow certain elements. ;)
I usually respond, "I'm sorry. I didn't feel the lead for that."

Then there was the guy who kept leading back ochos and trying to lead me out to the cross, but he wasn't changing back to parallel, so he kept trying to lead it when I was on the wrong foot. When he finally did it correctly, he said, "There you go!" :|
 

LKSO

Active Member
#84
Than tell him what you felt. If you didn't feel you couldn't follow.
And try to communicate how both of you instructed to lead and follow certain elements. ;)
You may or may not believe how these minor quips can lead to full scale heated arguments on a dance floor. It's probably not worth it.
 

Steve Pastor

Moderator
Staff member
#85
they don´t focus on music. If they would, the same developement would set in as in the BR-world: homogenized, codified, artificial elevator music.
I've been very fortunate to have instructors who did in fact start with the music: Alex Krebs, who plays bandoneon and has done several recordings, etc, Bill Alsup, who is a French Horn player (was?) with the opera, Steven Payne, who had previous dance training (contact improvisation). Any dance music should have some sort of discernible beat to dance to. Around that requirement, though, an awful lot of complexity can occur. And these teachers always used "authentic" tango music!
So, I don't think teaching to music will lead to homogenized music.
 

LKSO

Active Member
#88
Well I think "Arg Tango has 'no steps' and is a 'feeling" is so much BS*.
Its a dance, its like learning to play a saxophone, you need to do a lot of steps and practice. Any feeling you put into the dance comes from mastery of the steps and enjoying the music...

AT is not about steps even though there are steps. Per your example, any musician will say that music is not about notes. It's the meaning that matters. Someone who is still learning steps isn't dancing, just as someone who is still learning scales isn't making music. And someone who hears only notes isn't feeling the music, just as someone who sees only steps isn't feeling the dance.
 

Subliminal

Well-Known Member
#89
AT is not about steps even though there are steps. Per your example, any musician will say that music is not about notes. It's the meaning that matters. Someone who is still learning steps isn't dancing, just as someone who is still learning scales isn't making music. And someone who hears only notes isn't feeling the music, just as someone who sees only steps isn't feeling the dance.
I disagree with the metaphor.

Steps are equivalent to learning the fingerings to produce a note on the saxophone. Not scales. I play the saxophone. You can't pick one up and start playing by "feeling" the music. You have to start somewhere. Usually with instruction.
 

LKSO

Active Member
#90
But I'm referring to the end result, not the process. The process is just learning about the many parts of music or dance. The end result is music or dance.
 

Mladenac

Well-Known Member
#91
I usually respond, "I'm sorry. I didn't feel the lead for that."

Then there was the guy who kept leading back ochos and trying to lead me out to the cross, but he wasn't changing back to parallel, so he kept trying to lead it when I was on the wrong foot. When he finally did it correctly, he said, "There you go!" :|
What do you mean by that?
I usually exit ochos using the cross in cross system walking. :)
 

UKDancer

Well-Known Member
#92
What do you mean by that?
:)

I was wondering about that too: surely, all that matters is whether you finish the ocho on your LF or your RF, because a different number of follower's steps to a conventional LF over RF cross will be required? If the leader's foundation was the 8CB, he will finish the ocho with the follower on her RF, to lead '345', but he should be able to do that in normal or cross system (assuming the 8CB has been taught properly). If he has put the follower on her LF, he only needs to lead '45', but may have messed that up - is that what you mean? Even if his thinking is not influenced by the positions inherent in the 8CB, the principle is the same.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#93
I usually respond, "I'm sorry. I didn't feel the lead for that."

Then there was the guy who kept leading back ochos and trying to lead me out to the cross, but he wasn't changing back to parallel, so he kept trying to lead it when I was on the wrong foot. When he finally did it correctly, he said, "There you go!" :|

So you were dancing with an inexperienced dork...
 
#94
... if everyone is talking about how Arg Tango has 'no steps' and is a 'feeling', then why is everyone constantly debating 'accuracy' and 'authenticity'? If I go to an Arg Tango Milonga, why is there a need for me to do what everyone else is doing?
These are really three questions, but they are good ones.

It's not that AT has 'no steps", it is just that any steps are just a result of what comes out of the connection between the dancers. Also, AT is danced from every part of the body, so an AT dance cannot be captured with steps alone. Just like making a block of iron that looks like a Porsha and painting it red will not make it ride like a Porsha, imitating steps of a better dancer will not capture the feel and mechanics of what created those steps.

This is a big mistake of many dancers including myself is to do steps over and over for years and hope that the dance will come when good dancing comes from being able to feel and understand the dynamic between the lead and follow that creates the steps/moves.

When it comes to authenticity/accuracy, my belief is that when tango has been taken farther from its roots, instructors tend to try to mold it into patterns and sequences that are easier to teach, but do not convey the connection that goes along with and causes those patterns and this tends to churn out dancers that are just going through the motions and are just dancing patterns that look like tango, but do not feel like tango. I could be wrong, but I feel that to get that amazing feeling tango that makes you feel wonderful with every step, like you are floating on a cloud, you must understand where that feeling comes from and the only teachers that have been able to create that feeling and teach me how to create that feeling are the Milongueros from Argentina or a few teachers that have studied with them.

I don't understand your last question, but when I am at a Milonga, I don't really care what anyone else is doing as long as they are honoring there position in the ronda. All I care about are the feelings created by my follow and I.
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#95
:)

I was wondering about that too: surely, all that matters is whether you finish the ocho on your LF or your RF, because a different number of follower's steps to a conventional LF over RF cross will be required? If the leader's foundation was the 8CB, he will finish the ocho with the follower on her RF, to lead '345', but he should be able to do that in normal or cross system (assuming the 8CB has been taught properly). If he has put the follower on her LF, he only needs to lead '45', but may have messed that up - is that what you mean? Even if his thinking is not influenced by the positions inherent in the 8CB, the principle is the same.
I mean, he was leading me when he was on the foot he thought he needed to be on, but because he didn't change feet and didn't have the experience to know the difference, I was not on the foot he thought I was on. Therefore, he kept trying to lead the cross when my right foot was free. Therefore, it was impossible for me to cross.
 

Bailamosdance

Well-Known Member
#99
My usual solution when someone in the 'I've been doing this for a month now so I am an expert' category tells me how to 'do 'something, I say "Ok I'll do your part. Lead me the way you feel it is correct'. The paniced look in their eyes is worth the moment lol.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
These are really three questions, but they are good ones.

It's not that AT has 'no steps", it is just that any steps are just a result of what comes out of the connection between the dancers..
this is just more gobbledygook; the steps arent a result of anything.they are fundamental to anything called dancing, or moving to music...

Also, AT is danced from every part of the body, so an AT dance cannot be captured with steps alone.
this is just a truism, and can apply to pretty much any dance form from ballet to a Galliard.
 

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