Philly Fest 2008

#62
I am also very surprised with this result:

3. Nik and Natasha
4. Alexander Senko - Lydia Petrigova
5. Ivailo Tonchev and Irina Boubnovskaia
6. Plamen and Tina


Curious how all these couples will do in Blackpool.
Was this the first comp for Irina with this partner?
 
#63
We all got a laugh out of it.Even S.Fortuna was surprised. It just shows to our dance community how politically presented this competition was,its a shame.
As if every other competition is not. This is nothing new in the world of dancing, and the higher up you go, the more political it gets.
 
#64
The couples on 3 and 4th did not belong there at all, everyone in the crowd knew that. It pays off to be related to a judge and do lots of pro am competitions. Ivailo and Irina should have been 2d or 1st and Plamen should have been third. The crowd booed the judges when these couples were placed. We all got a laugh out of it.Even S.Fortuna was surprised. It just shows to our dance community how politically presented this competition was,its a shame. Good result for Nikolay Shpakov, good job.Great dancing everybody, bad judging.
::sigh:: I'm tired of people who register to the website to spend their entire first post just bashing other people. Results are results, suck it up.
Well-articulated discussions on placements and such are welcome, but it's clear from the tone and wording of your post that your sole purpose is to attack these dancers (some of whom read DF). If you want to make posts like these at least have the guts to provide your real name instead of hiding behind the safety of an anonymous username.
 

Larinda McRaven

Site Moderator
Staff member
#66
Originally Posted by whoiswho

The couples on 3 and 4th did not belong there at all, everyone in the crowd knew that. It pays off to be related to a judge and do lots of pro am competitions. Ivailo and Irina should have been 2d or 1st and Plamen should have been third. The crowd booed the judges when these couples were placed. We all got a laugh out of it.Even S.Fortuna was surprised. It just shows to our dance community how politically presented this competition was,its a shame. Good result for Nikolay Shpakov, good job.Great dancing everybody, bad judging.


::sigh:: I'm tired of people who register to the website to spend their entire first post just bashing other people. Results are results, suck it up.
Well-articulated discussions on placements and such are welcome, but it's clear from the tone and wording of your post that your sole purpose is to attack these dancers (some of whom read DF). If you want to make posts like these at least have the guts to provide your real name instead of hiding behind the safety of an anonymous username.

Thank you Masaya. And I quite agree, Whoiswho, you are certainly welcome to post and join the discussion, as long as your words and tone are not rude or inflammatory. So lets not even have posts like this again ... even with a real name. The statement is unsupported regardless and the statement has no place on Dance Forums.

You certainly are not a Professional judge, to know what goes through their minds. You are certainly not S Fortuna to be able to state that she was surprised. And your statement about pro-am is off base because not one of the four people you pointed at is a big pro-ammer.

If you disagree with the results feel free to say so, but to try to pass off a result as political is pointless. If you can show me a video where these people are doing heel leads in rumba and fall down every other step I might buy the statement
3 and 4th did not belong there at all
... until then just be honest and say you do not agree with 7 or 9 professional judges marks.

Any further such remarks will result in infraction points being issued. Choose your words wisely.
 
#67
The couples on 3 and 4th did not belong there at all, everyone in the crowd knew that. The crowd booed the judges when these couples were placed. .
I was there. I remember seeing couple 3 dance and they were incredible. I don't remember which one was couple 4 but I'm sure they belonged there. The crowd did NOT boo.
 

GJB

Well-Known Member
#68
I thought I heard the audience boo at Ivailo and Irina's placement. The audience was definitely not happy with that result. However, that being said, I am not defending remarks made by whoiswho regarding politics or who should or should not have been in the final.
 
#70
I can tell you a couple things: There were 11 judges on the pro panels. There is absolutely no effort on the part of the Fortunas to skew the panels in favor of any competitive couple-panels are set up to a year in advance-couples come and go in that amount of time.

Lydia got hit in the face by her own hand in a freak accident. Her doctor boyfriend took charge of her when she started to collapse at the end of the jive. She rested, checked her make-up, set her attitude and went back to dance well in the final.

Rene and Bronislava were 7th.

The panel was comprised of well-respected members of the dance world who have an interest in moving the sport and the activity and participation in it forward. I don't think that any of them would expose themselves to the criticism they would endure for judging anything differently than their expertise dictates.
 

reb

Active Member
#71
I'm a little late to the party - sorry, but I was alerted this while working another project . . .

whoiswho - your character is showing.

::sigh:: I'm tired of people who register to the website to spend their entire first post just bashing other people.
I agree - :-x

You certainly are not a Professional judge, to know what goes through their minds. You are certainly not S Fortuna to be able to state that she was surprised. And your statement about pro-am is off base because not one of the four people you pointed at is a big pro-ammer.

If you disagree with the results feel free to say so, but to try to pass off a result as political is pointless. If you can show me a video where these people are doing heel leads in rumba and fall down every other step I might buy the statement ... until then just be honest and say you do not agree with 7 or 9 professional judges marks
Right!

You are certainly not S Fortuna to be able to state that she was surprised
Larinda - you are so right . . . I am reading an email from Sandi right now debunking this lie.
 

reb

Active Member
#72
I can tell you a couple things: There were 11 judges on the pro panels. There is absolutely no effort on the part of the Fortunas to skew the panels in favor of any competitive couple-panels are set up to a year in advance-couples come and go in that amount of time.

Lydia got hit in the face by her own hand in a freak accident. Her doctor boyfriend took charge of her when she started to collapse at the end of the jive. She rested, checked her make-up, set her attitude and went back to dance well in the final.

Rene and Bronislava were 7th.

The panel was comprised of well-respected members of the dance world who have an interest in moving the sport and the activity and participation in it forward. I don't think that any of them would expose themselves to the criticism they would endure for judging anything differently than their expertise dictates.
Thank you. :D
 

reb

Active Member
#73
This is probably a good point for this experience at a recent comp . . .

A pro confided that you have to take lessons from judge X in order to get good marks from judge X and that is why he placed as poorly as he did - because he refuses to take lessons from this judge for that reason.

After the marks were published, this "very knowledgeable pro" who talked so knowlingly about the politics to be played, discovered that they had been placed surprisingly high by judge X.

It won't stop the rumor mill, but it did cause this one pro (at least temporarily) to stop using it as an excuse - heck, I think he might even go see judge X for coaching now because he is no longer indignant since his "knowledge", I mean theory - had a hole in it. Might not have been such a traumatic experience for him if he hadn't been so convinced about the "facts".
 

ChaChaMama

Well-Known Member
#74
I have stayed out of this until now, as I wanted to avoid any possible troll feeding, but wanted to add a thought or two.

First, while there was some murmuring when Ivailo and Irina placed 5th, I heard nothing but applause for the 4th and 3rd place finishers. When the individual couples were introduced, there were raucous cheers for both these couples. The audience seemed quite enthusiastic about what they were putting out on the floor.

Second, Nik, I greatly appreciate your dancing. When I watch you and your partner, I see speed, body action, flexibility, synchronicity, chemistry, and charisma. Kudos to you for your well-deserved result at Philly.


CCM
 
#75
I have the score sheets and the marks are all over the place. There a lot of dances being won and lost by different couples. But what counts is the majority of placings for any couple to get the place they got.

11111
22222
43433
34346
55754
66565
77677
 

reb

Active Member
#76
I have stayed out of this until now, as I wanted to avoid any possible troll feeding, but wanted to add a thought or two.

First, while there was some murmuring when Ivailo and Irina placed 5th, I heard nothing but applause for the 4th and 3rd place finishers. When the individual couples were introduced, there were raucous cheers for both these couples. The audience seemed quite enthusiastic about what they were putting out on the floor.

Second, Nik, I greatly appreciate your dancing. When I watch you and your partner, I see speed, body action, flexibility, synchronicity, chemistry, and charisma. Kudos to you for your well-deserved result at Philly.


CCM
Thanks CCM.

As a respected member of this community - and one who was there - your report speaks volumes.

:notworth:
 
#77
Just looking at those raw numbers with no reference to anything else*, the marks look very consistent with each other, with most of the differences being trades between specific pairs of adjacent places.

The greatest difference there between any individual mark and the outcome (or indeed any other mark) is 2 places, and there's only one of those. I'm used to thinking of "all over the place" as differences of 4-5 places, even often seeing 1's and 6's on the same line...

(* it's latin, so I really have nothing else to reference ;-) )
 

reb

Active Member
#78
Just looking at those raw numbers with no reference to anything else*, the marks look very consistent with each other, with most of the differences being trades between specific pairs of adjacent places.

The greatest difference there between any individual mark and the outcome (or indeed any other mark) is 2 places, and there's only one of those. I'm used to thinking of "all over the place" as differences of 4-5 places, even often seeing 1's and 6's on the same line...

(* it's latin, so I really have nothing else to reference ;-) )
I agree Chris - compared to Smooth, this seems relatively stable!
 
#79
Could anyone who was still up Saturday am (after the Friday evening session) at 1:30am and in the vicinity of the vendor area, pm me? We had a major theft and we have a video of the person doing it. I am wondering if anyone could help us identify the person?

Thanks...
 
#80
Just looking at those raw numbers with no reference to anything else*, the marks look very consistent with each other, with most of the differences being trades between specific pairs of adjacent places.

The greatest difference there between any individual mark and the outcome (or indeed any other mark) is 2 places, and there's only one of those. I'm used to thinking of "all over the place" as differences of 4-5 places, even often seeing 1's and 6's on the same line...

(* it's latin, so I really have nothing else to reference ;-) )
Sorry Chris, I meant the individual dance marks were all over the place.
 

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