steps you hate...and why

bluslu

Active Member
Learned a terrible step in swing last night- a sort of weird quick grapevine around your partner than some weird swivels to follow. The instructor showed them with her legs, all, ahem, open on top. I asked her how to do the technique so that the thighs could stay close. Her answer was that they were supposed to be all open up there, because it comes from street swing. Excuse me, but I'm dancing ballroom swing, not street swing, and would like to keep those bits closed in a short skirt
You were not there tonight. The move is much better when instructed by someone from a ballroom background. She said she did it open because that's her background but we very much learned it with closed legs tonight. You have to rotate from the hip, which leads to rotation of both legs equally, getting the swivel action without exposing yourself to the world.

However, that's not to say I like the move. I don't like the beginning of the move because of how fast it goes and none of the guys being able to lead it such that the footwork flows the way it should. Doesn't help she played a jive the first time we tried to do it. That move definitely cannot be transitioned to jive unless you enjoy looking like a raving lunatic jumping around.

I hate the bronze level hip swivels that progress down the floor in ECS. A) they're tough on my hips which don't like to rotate than much and B) most of the guys get this weird bouncy pattern when they do it. Blegh, no thanks. I can find better things to do out of my point kicks which look much sharper.
 

Siggav

Active Member
Lindy hopper here and Im very curious about that "street swing" figure now, I really can't visualise it from the description. Any youtube videos or more detailed description that you could dig up? even a common name of the move would be helpful.

I also am struggling a bit with the "open on top" comments, you mean not having your thighs stuck together when you dance, do you normally dance with your thighs really close together?

I don't (but I don't dance ballroom and I'm aware that these are totally different dances, Im just being curious but yeah most of my skirts are relatively long (just above the knee at the shortest really) and I'm careful to pick ones that don't fly up too high either (or if I do Im aware of that and wear shorts underneath)

As for moves I don't like, anything overly complicated and "arm-y" like the pretzel, I also don't like being held in hammerlock positions for extended periods of time.
 

llamasarefuzzy

Well-Known Member
Lindy hopper here and Im very curious about that "street swing" figure now, I really can't visualise it from the description. Any youtube videos or more detailed description that you could dig up? even a common name of the move would be helpful.

I also am struggling a bit with the "open on top" comments, you mean not having your thighs stuck together when you dance, do you normally dance with your thighs really close together?

I don't (but I don't dance ballroom and I'm aware that these are totally different dances, Im just being curious but yeah most of my skirts are relatively long (just above the knee at the shortest really) and I'm careful to pick ones that don't fly up too high either (or if I do Im aware of that and wear shorts underneath)

As for moves I don't like, anything overly complicated and "arm-y" like the pretzel, I also don't like being held in hammerlock positions for extended periods of time.
Eh, its a little hard to describe, so I'm sure I'm doing a terrible job. As far as thighs go, though, yes. I've been told on several occasions to try and keep it so you can slide a credit card between them and hold it there- nobody wants to see those bits open (whether or not they are covered by a skirt). Even if you are wearing a longer skirt and shorts underneath, I find that not keeping my thighs together results in the possibility for some very unladylike pictures
 

bluslu

Active Member
There's also just a difference in leg position between "street swing" and ballroom. With ballroom, there is more collection to the legs with specific directions. With "street swing" there is definitely less of that so you see legs facing opposite directions at times, which opens up everything at the top. Legs like this: <> show a lot more than legs like this: << or >>. It's not this specific move, it's more just the basic motion of Lindy vs ECS ballroom style. This may not be how Lindy action is supposed to be, I don't know, but it's definitely seen quite a bit in all of the Lindy dancers I've seen.
 
I've seen several people mention Slow Foxtrot Hover Crosses, and I can't agree more. They're miserable and just feel super amateurish no matter what you do.

Also, the closed wing in Waltz gives me trouble. Either my partner and I lose connection as she wraps around me, or I stick my butt out in an attempt to keep my rib cage connection with her. Either one doesn't do me any favors.
 

FancyFeet

Well-Known Member
I'm hating on pretty much all of VW at the moment... working on it every day trying to get it to the next level is causing major frustration. I may have declared tonight that I'll work on it through the weekend, then it's getting no practice love at all for a week. Maybe two.
 

MaggieMoves

Well-Known Member
Cuddle in ECS -it's so cutesy and a little too sugar-sweet for my tastes
stop and go in ECS or jive with that awful nose-bop! - Again, far too cutesy for my dance attitude. It's fine without the nose-bop and some attitude but I bite things that come too close to my face...
Agreed on both of these. The only time I like the cuddle in ECS is when I can duck out of the back of it, one of my favorite highjacks.
 

MaggieMoves

Well-Known Member
Interesting... after you're out, what do you do with it?
I believe this turns into a pretzel, but I've ended up in other positions. I need some arms to try it out on though to confirm. I haven't done much social dancing in awhile. From what I recall, many partners used to just let go and we'd return to a triple step basic.

Come to think of it... I don't like pretzels either.
 

cornutt

Well-Known Member
Hmm. Seems like I could let your left hand go, lead a right spin, and then use it to go to some swivels. Or use the spin to go to a handshake hold and then a duck walk. I may have to play with that.

Usually, when I lead my partner into a cuddle, either I bring it back out to a hammerlock, or I walk it around to the right 1-2 and then roll my partner out into a Manhattan.
 

MaggieMoves

Well-Known Member
Hmm. Seems like I could let your left hand go, lead a right spin, and then use it to go to some swivels. Or use the spin to go to a handshake hold and then a duck walk. I may have to play with that.

Usually, when I lead my partner into a cuddle, either I bring it back out to a hammerlock, or I walk it around to the right 1-2 and then roll my partner out into a Manhattan.
I honestly just hate the cuddle because I'm often led into it while social dancing... and it feels very off. Now doing it with a competitive partner (amateur or pro) is entirely different. Some steps just don't seem to work well in a social setting.
 

tangotime

Well-Known Member
I honestly just hate the cuddle because I'm often led into it while social dancing... and it feels very off. Now doing it with a competitive partner (amateur or pro) is entirely different.

Some steps just don't seem to work well in a social setting.
Actually, that is used in salsa at social levels, but released in to a "roll out " ( Wrap and release ). It is a tad more difficult than it appears to be ., as it has a continuous rotation in salsa, ( no back breaks till the end of release ) . It will / does work , in Swing .
 

MaggieMoves

Well-Known Member
Actually, that is used in salsa at social levels, but released in to a "roll out " ( Wrap and release ). It is a tad more difficult than it appears to be ., as it has a continuous rotation in salsa, ( no back breaks till the end of release ) . It will / does work , in Swing .
See, that move I love... the whole point of the "cuddle" there is to just unwind into a very fast 1.5 turn spin and I find that to be a lot of fun. But cuddle with nothing else? It's borderline just... creepy.
 

IndyLady

Well-Known Member
But cuddle with nothing else? It's borderline just... creepy.
I agree with this in general about the cuddle and cuddle-like moves. There's a hustle move I don't like that I openly refer to as the "straight-jacket" because it is literally that. The lead has the follow in front of him with her back to him, and has both her hands while her arms are crossed in front of her body like a straight-jacket. I think I mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread a cha cha figure called the "puzzle" which has one of the lady's arms crossed in front of her. It all feels like someone is trying to restrain me, which is not a comfortable feeling. I suspect that these moves were developed by leads w/o thinking about how it felt to follow them.
 

MaggieMoves

Well-Known Member
I agree with this in general about the cuddle and cuddle-like moves. There's a hustle move I don't like that I openly refer to as the "straight-jacket" because it is literally that. The lead has the follow in front of him with her back to him, and has both her hands while her arms are crossed in front of her body like a straight-jacket. I think I mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread a cha cha figure called the "puzzle" which has one of the lady's arms crossed in front of her. It all feels like someone is trying to restrain me, which is not a comfortable feeling. I suspect that these moves were developed by leads w/o thinking about how it felt to follow them.
Entirely agreed. They're great for a half measure as a means to leverage your own body weight... but that's really it.
 

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