the quantal shift - good to great and fast?

I think most people also seem to think that RB dancing is somehow easy to do.
I think you hit the nail on the head there - it DOES read as if all you have to do is shed your inhibitions and you can dance like mirko and alessia. Far from it - as you say, letting yourself dance becomes as much a R brain challenge as thinking about what you are going to do for LB driven dancing. The good thing, however, is that you can indulge in LB training without harming your RB process. And you can even do the two at the same time. I'm finding that some dances are more easily switched - FT, W, VW and possibly T, whereas QS is a late starter, for reasons mentioned.
 
it's people that I have come into contact with, as in face-to-face contact with, that have shown a very strong conviction of the fact that the RB approach leads to sloppy dancing.
I've said this before on numerous occasions. This is because they MISunderstand what RB dancing is. I can't stress this enough. It is HEIGHTENED awareness; it is not unconsciousness. You can better control your body AND your technique in this state. I feed my body and mind whatever information I think I need to get the job done, then I stop thinking about it and let it happen. Sometimese it takes a lot of trial and error, sometimes it comes quickly.

My experience with people who are resistant to this approach, is that they never really let go enough to give it a fair shot. My girl friend is one of these. She finally started reading the Zen Body-Being book and she said what she was missing was the knowledge of HOW to get to that quiet state. I'd tell her to do something without thought and she'd be thinking out loud the entire time even after I told her to be quiet. She is one who has to do the quieting exercises off the dance floor.

I'm of the mind though that many may never be able to dance or learn to dance this way. And I'll leave it at that.
 
In my experience in attempting to share the idea behind RB dancing, it seems that a lot of people are afraid of what Fascination mentioned as "sloppy dancing". A lot of folks I've come into contact with equate RB dancing to the lack of technical knowledge and technique. They also believe that technical knowledge needs to be attained completely (or as close to it as possible) before stepping back and trying to create the "whole picture" with the RB.

It's actually quite the opposite.

Switching from LB to RB dancing has been the biggest revelation to me since way back when I realized that bees need to be avoided at all costs and storks don't deliver babies.

Another way to look at it:
Assume I take up art classes. My "coach" tells me to draw two circles, then draw a box on top of them, and then another smaller box on top of the one I just drew. He goes on to tell me how important it is that the circumference of the circles have to be equal distance from the center, how important it is to have the small box on top of the big box, how it is imperative that the circles be next to each other with a certain amount of distance between them, etc. etc. Then he shows me a profile picture of a Ferrari (again, with the car analogies. What's with Dancepro and me and cars?!). My LB sees the picture of the Ferrari but proceeds to take it apart: my LB looks at the lightweight Aluminum alloy wheels with the low-profile high performance Pirelli radial tires and says, "there! I see the two circles the coach made me draw". Then my LB looks at the shapely, shiny, smooth body work and says, "there, I see the big box he made me draw"... and then finally my LB looks at the sharply slanting angular windshield, roof, etc., and goes, "and there's that small box he made me draw on top of the big box!". So there I am happilly drawing two circles and two boxes (because my coach told me to) and wondering why on earth my picture doesn't look quite as good as the one my coach showed me. Surely he didn't miss anything in his description of a Ferrari did he?!

Then I change my approach and decide to use the RB to draw: it looks at the Ferrari, turns to my LB, points at the two circles and two boxes my LB is showing off proudly, laughs hysterically at it, and then proceeds to show the LB what a Ferrari is supposed to look like. After the LB suffers enough humiliation, it gives in and starts to take notes on how to draw a Ferrari. The resulting picture is 100 times more detailed, colorful, and closer to the actual than the LB could ever come up with by itself.

I believe the same could be said about singing: I'm sure most people can accurately sing a song or hum a tune, putting in all the nuances such as major, minor, tempo, sharps, flats, quavers, crotchets, the works! Thing is, most people have no technical knowledge of what they just hummed or sang. Most people will have no idea what key they were even singing in. That's not to say that the person humming or singing shouldn't have been comfortable doing so due to their lack of technical prowess, nor does it mean that his singing/humming lacked technique.

The RB has become just as big a part of my dancing as my coach has. It's almost like one can't do without the other. I wish I could explain it better.
I love this post, thank you SG for posting it. I especially like the car analogy ha ha. You sure know your Ferrari.:p

:car: honk honk.... here I come with my RB seeing the whole scenery and my LB warning me about the speed limited;) and other potential dangers.

Dancepro
 
I think most people also seem to think that RB dancing is somehow easy to do. I'm hoping it becomes easier, provided I gather all the tools and knowledge required to properly execute RB dancing. Turning off the "Judge" is the toughest thing I've ever had to do. Still struggling with it.
It is not easy to do RB dancing. Most people have heard the noise of the LB for so long, they don't hear the noise any longer. I promise, it does become easier with time. You will have to develop the tools and knowledge to get the "Judge" to get quite and stay quite until asked for input. You were at least willing to give it a go even though it was tough, I take my hat of for that. There are many people that are not even willing to give it a fair change to see if it really will work for them or not. They are so addicted to their habits and paradigms that, if they don't keep doing what they have always done, they will suffer from withdrawal symptoms. In the movie "what the blip do we know" this subject is very clearly explained. You have taken over the control of your mind and body, the struggle will lessen with time, I assure you. ;)

Dancepro
 
It is HEIGHTENED awareness; it is not unconsciousness. You can better control your body AND your technique in this state.
In this state of mind everything slows down to a feeling of slow-motion movement. You therefore have the time to make all the necessary correction as issues come up. You will make as many mistakes as before but you will have the time to correct them before they escalate into major issues that causes you to have to stop to regroup.

Dancepro
 

Angel HI

Well-Known Member
I can tell from the posts of the past couple of days that you guys are getting this, and it's cool! A couple of adds.....
.... Is it a bad thing for your dancing to never analyze it? I am a very RB type of person and when I dance... I just dance. I mean practice time on my own is one thing, I have to remember what my body did in an earlier lesson and try to recreate it, but when I am dancing with my instructor I really never think. And when I do try to think about it, I seem to mess it up.
Fasc said it most recently...of course one has to think in order to properly educate/train the body to do what dance requires. You would never say that the best way to learn in school is to just sit there, and never do any of the exercises. The answer, though given many times in many ways throughout the thread, is very well repeated here....

...they MISunderstand what RB dancing is. It is HEIGHTENED awareness; it is not unconsciousness.

You can better control your body AND your technique in this state. I feed my body and mind whatever information I think I need to get the job done, then I stop thinking about it and let it happen.
 
This way of getting the whole picture first and then taking it apart is by no means a new idea. There have been and is many teachers/coaches in many aspects of life, that believe this way of learning creates wonderful fast results. I do think the RB method was somewhat of a secret among the average dancers, at least here on DF. The reason I come to this conclusion is that this thread has had many more visitors then the average thread normally has. I know that some are totally against this thread and this way of doing it. They are of cause welcome to believe what ever they choose to believe in. I have just seen a hunger for knowledge in this way of doing things that I didn't really notice before, mind you I haven't been around for that long. AHI tells me that this issue has come up before but only to be soon forgotten. For some reason this thread seems to have many dancers reading the posts and feeling safe enough to post their own wonderful experiences with this way of dancing. I am grateful that so many people have had such a wonderful time with this way of dancing. As I said before this is not a new idea but I do want to explain a little about my main teacher.

He was a very successful dancer but retired very early because of his partners knee problems. He started teaching seriously in the late 50's to the early 60's. He soon became known as a great teacher, with a talent for getting the best out of every couple, he taught. He started teaching very high ranking couples right after he retired. One of these couples ended up winning 13 world championship titles. At one time I asked them why they started taking lessons with him. He was "only" 4th in the world and they were world champions. They each had very different answers to the question but the interesting thing was, it was basically the same thing. She said that, he was the only one, that had ever been able to get her to just be and not worry about the outcome. He said that, he was the only one, that had made him realize that technique was not the end all and be all, but there was something greater then just being technically correct.
It was at one time said that if you wanted to get into the semifinal or final in the big competitions, you had to have lessons with this teacher. He was not involved in any organizations or any groups. He didn't take any political stand, yet most couples worked with him and love their lessons with him. He was a very gentle and quite man with a heart of gold. Everybody loved him and many had/have stories of what he did and said. The lady world champion mentioned above told me, he taught every semifinalist and finalist there ever was except for 8 couples and that was from the early 60's until the late 90's. Needless to say he was respected by all his students but he was also very respected by his peers. He always used the RB approach with every couple that he taught. Every lessons was unique and different from one another even though they followed the same approach. I only watched him work for about 10 years but he was always consistent in his approach to the dancing.

The idea that I posted here is just repetition of what my teacher told me was the fastest way to get good. I used it on myself with fast success, I used it on students with fast success and many of my students now teach this with the same fast success rate. As far as I remember, what Elise asked for, was to get good fast. If somebody else has an as fast way or a faster way then this, then they should come out as say so. It seems to me the only fast way that has come up on this thread is the RB approach. I would love to hear of a different way that could get my students better even faster. Please let us know if there is a faster way to get good then this. I am all ears or I should say... I am all eyes.

Dancepro
 

Angel HI

Well-Known Member
The idea that I posted here is just repetition of what my teacher told me was the fastest way to get good. As far as I remember, what Elise asked for, was to get good fast. If somebody else has an as fast way or a faster way then this, ... I am all eyes. Dancepro
You are correct. As we have discussed, my backstory largely parallels yours, and, just tonight, I was, again, reaffirmed that this method is of the best. Several students who had taken the dance class from several other teachers, came to me to say that the class (not looking for kudos, at all, here) made the dance much easier, and that they learned much quicker. Some might argue that this is b/c they had the class before. Perhaps, but I taught these people, and...no, they hadn't.
 
What if you wanted to move your dancing up rapidly - the goal being to reach open competitor ASAP. What would you want to do? And, what is there that you could do?

For example, is there any way one could do a week or two full-time retreat? Or is there a teacher/studio that springs to mind that teaches not only the body but the mentality of top level dancing?

:cool:
When I posted this original question I had, of course, no idea what it would bring. I had always felt this dichotomy between how I was learning to dance and dancing to compete with how I felt to dance and danced in social situations. I felt there must be a different way. This post was really a plea to the dance gods for guidance.

Of course, one never expects such calls to really be answered. The oucome is nothing short of astonishing, gently guided and tended by dancepro :notworth:. Some of these ideas have been raised on DF before - notably by AngelHi (sorry I did not listen earlier ;)) - but in little pieces, almost as cries in the DF wilderness but these were always suppressed by a deluge of technical political correctness. What this thread did was to provide a nucleating place, a safe haven to discuss RB theory and practise, where those that need the input and ideas and also those that were doing it already but did not know it, could hear from those that really understand it.

I'm not sure why I posted this right now - I think my RB told me it was appropriate to do a recap on the thread after dancepro did a long post on the history of the method :)
 
What I think Angel HI did, was plant a lot of seeds over several years. He patiently kept watering them and watering them, in the hopes that one day, they would sprout and become a beautiful garden.

You, my dear Elise, had the first seed to sprout as you in a way were asking "what is that" while looking at the tiny little sprout. You asked the question and I then gave the seed a little water and your little seed started growing to a notable size and then into a beautiful flower. ;)

If Angel HI had not planted the seeds:notworth: and then watered them all these years.:notworth: Then when I poured the water out, it would have served no purpose, it would have been wasted. I am grateful to the patience and perseverance that he showed in keeping this seeds alive for such a long time.

Thank you Angle HI, you are a true angel.:D

Dancepro
 

Angel HI

Well-Known Member
What I think Angel HI did, was plant a lot of seeds over several years. Thank you Angle HI, you are a true angel.:D
Dancepro
De rien. But, no thanks needed. Few of us get rich from this...most of us do it b/c we love it. Just keep learning and growing, and applying same to other aspects of your lives. That's thanks enough. Well, the riches would be good, too. :)
 
De rien. But, no thanks needed. Few of us get rich from this...most of us do it b/c we love it. Just keep learning and growing, and applying same to other aspects of your lives. That's thanks enough. Well, the riches would be good, too. :)

I still think you should be thanked..at least I would like to thank you. I do agree that seeing and hearing of the great experiences wonderful and that the ideas should be taken into other aspects of life.

In regards to the riches... the universe will pay you;) I promise

Dancepro
 
Thanks to Angel HI, Katandmouse, Elise, Dancepro and lot of the others here, I've actually learned to take my enjoyment of dancing to a whole other level. For those of you who already had that enjoyment before this topic came up, I envy you!!!
 
It is really great to hear that some of you really got it. I was hoping when I joined DF, that I could at least help two people change and discover some of the insights of dancing. I promised my teacher to pass the insights, that he had given me, onto 10 dancers. I am a little OTT so I set out to pass it onto 20 dancers. When I joined the DF I had helped 10 professionals and 8 amateurs to understand the insights. So I was missing two amateurs to be done. I have now fulfilled my promise. I will now be able to retire content and happy knowing that the information is out there. I would like to thank you for listening and helping me fulfill the promise that made to my teacher.

Dancepro
 
Someguy - lovely to know - it brings on a whole new feeling when you feel at one with yourself dancing. Keep with it :D


I love this post, thank you SG for posting it. I especially like the car analogy ha ha. You sure know your Ferrari.:p

:car: honk honk.... here I come with my RB seeing the whole scenery and my LB warning me about the speed limited and other potential dangers.

Dancepro
Sorry, but this post has been nagging at me all day to respond.

You obviously need to upgrade to the 'Dukes of Hazard' honker ;)
 

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