Throwaway oversway

#41
dance pro - I asked my pro about the X line the other day, he showed it to me and described it as stopping half through a bombshell... If we add it to our routine will you come to canada to see it :)
Are you inviting me??;) Do you have a lot of snow there right now?? I think the summer time would be the best time for me....so sure I will come.:)

Dancepro
 

etp777

Active Member
#42
Definitely, and you have to be at level ready for it. I absolutely was thrilled with how well that particular dance went at one comp I did it. Came off floor shaking (first showcase and all), and even scored well, but deifnitely at point that I can look at it now and point to all kinds of things where I was lacking technically. Now, could get uspet about it, or could put song it's choeographed to on repeat on my mp3 player and just take it measure by measure and try to pinpoint where it' slacking and improve it. I went with second choice.

Course, now I juts have to dig up the cash to do it again. :)
 
#43
Dancepro, I don't go quite that far, but definitely keep both good and bad videos and pcitures around so I can see both. I want to know when I'm doing something right, but also when I'm doing it wrong, so I can fix it. Like showcase with that throwaway, I know that while I did alright showcase/performance wise, lacking in actual tango technique. So been doing a LOT of workign going through every measure of that showcase, step tby step, to try to improve it.
My humor is a little different. My partner couldn't believe what I had done when he saw it. He kept asking why I didn't put the good pictures up. I told him that the good pictures didn't make me laugh (I was retired at the time so improving the look for competitions and shows was no longer a goal).

Well, that is the thing to do work on it till you get it right.

Dancepro
 
#44
Heh, I like to be reminded of my mistakes, at least at times. :) Just had annual review at work today, and boss asked, kind of hesittantly, whether I wnated to know from other managers when they had a problem iwith interactions with me. Jumped on that though, as of course I do. Can't improve unless you not only know when you make mistakes, but actually embrace it. Have to accpet you're doing something wrong before you can improve it.

Well, that's how it works for me anyway.
I would agree on that one. If you knew it was wrong you wouldn't have done it in the first place. That is how it works for me too. That is why I find it so funny. I though it was great it the time I did it. What I am really laughing at is my ignorance and at the same time thanking my teachers for putting up with my ignorance. Thinking back and going boy was I stupid and lost. Oh well, just my way of finding things to laugh at (can't watch Mr. Bean all the time).

Dancepro
 

tangotime

Well-Known Member
#46
The X-line is an "old" international standard step. I guess, you need to of a certain age, be trained by the "old" greats or .

According to my teacher the X-Line can be done both in Promenade and in Counter Promenade.

X-Line in Promenade: The couple are in Promenade Position (1/4 difference between the hips and the feet of the man and lady). The man has all of his weight on the RF pointing the LF to the side (straight leg). The Lady has all of her weight on the LF pointing the RF to the side (straight leg).


Guess thats why I remember it so well :rolleyes: ... The counter was not as popular as the standard prom... its danced from an Open Natural .

If anyone has P.Egg. for coaching, he will dem it for you.
 
#47
Guess thats why I remember it so well :rolleyes: ... The counter was not as popular as the standard prom... its danced from an Open Natural .

If anyone has P.Egg. for coaching, he will dem it for you.
I guess we are in the same boat;).....rocking away;)

Yes, that is a good idea. Who ever has coaching booked with Peter....have him show it to you.

Dancepro
 
#49
dancepro; The picture that QPO came up with does look more like a X-Line in CPP then a Throwaway Oversway.....or let me say it like this...it is not the best Throwaway Oversway in the world. What Andrew and Lorraine is doing said:
Getting back to the Throwaway Oversway, could you please explain what is so different in the two pictures (QPO's one and Pruthe's one)? I am trying to make out why one Oversway is better than the other, but I do not see too much of a difference.


 
#50
I,m more in the "rocking chair " category !
Ohhh, so you stepped of the boat;). That's good, then one of us are on dry land and one is out there on the big ocean (I guess the Atlantic, between the US and England);). Well, I will stay in the boat and keep rocking the dance world from where I am and you will rock it from where you are. We will keep our little world rocking I am sure.:)

Dancepro
 

tangotime

Well-Known Member
#51
Getting back to the Throwaway Oversway, could you please explain what is so different in the two pictures (QPO's one and Pruthe's one)? I am trying to make out why one Oversway is better than the other, but I do not see too much of a difference.


Look at the left arm inclination of Andrew.. has a much better projection, and the " line" thru the ladies body appears to have more length.. its a little difficult to evaluate completely, without seeing it from all sides.. in addition, Andrew has a better shape away from the partner and still retains a compact line
 

Dancebug

Well-Known Member
#52
To me, the lady's left side is too open in the first picture. It could be the man invading the lady's space and pushing her. Also I wonder if the man's left leg is bent enough or his foot pointing in the wrong way.
 
#53
Getting back to the Throwaway Oversway, could you please explain what is so different in the two pictures (QPO's one and Pruthe's one)? I am trying to make out why one Oversway is better than the other, but I do not see too much of a difference.


The hips and the feet on the first (top) picture are turned slightly out. If you look at Andrew and Loraine's hips and feet they are facing each other. If you imagined that both the couples were to close their feet, the couple above Andrew and Loraine would end in a slight CPP (Counter Promenade Position) and Andrew and Loraine would end in closed position. If you look at the man's RF foot (as it is the only foot we can see) in the first picture it is turned out compared to the line of his hips. You can actually see a twist of the leg by looking at his pants and at the back of his tail suit (his twisted suit was actually the first thing that made me look at what was wrong with the line). If you look at Andrews left leg you can see it is forward to-wards Loraine. If you were to calculate where his LF is, it would be pointing to-wards Loraine. If you look at his RF you can see it is pointing to-wards the floor in the same line as the other (LF). If you look at the lady's (in purple dress) feet they are pointing in two totally different directions. The RF is pointing to-wards the man and the LF is pointing out. Now look at Loraine's feet. The RF are pointing toward Andrew and the LF are pointing to the floor but in the same line as the RF. Andrew and Loraine are in a clear Throwaway Oversway and the couple in the first picture look like they are on their way to a Counter X-Line. The couple in the first picture have overturned the line away from one another with about 1/8. If they did a little more turn they would be in a clear Counter X-Line.

I hope this helps you see the difference as I see it. I know I got a little into the small bits and pieces, but that is just how I see it. When I saw the first picture I thought Underturned X-Line or Overturned Throwaway Oversway. When I saw Andrew and Loraine I thought Throwaway Oversway. When you asked for more detail I had to get in the LB and find out what I really saw as being the difference, but I hope the explanation is clear enough to understand.

PS. To the couple in the first picture...if you are here on the DF, sorry to have taken your picture apart in public.

Dancepro
 
#54
Look at the left arm inclination of Andrew.. has a much better projection, and the " line" thru the ladies body appears to have more length.. its a little difficult to evaluate completely, without seeing it from all sides.. in addition, Andrew has a better shape away from the partner and still retains a compact line
Yes, I agree. I didn't even go to the top. I just got so distracted by the twisted suit of the man in the first picture (look at the back of the tails and the pants), that I looked for what was wrong and not for what was right. You are right about the topline and Andrew's line thru Loraine.

Dancepro
 
#55
To me, the lady's left side is too open in the first picture. It could be the man invading the lady's space and pushing her. Also I wonder if the man's left leg is bent enough or his foot pointing in the wrong way.
Agree...the lady's left side is too open. Why? ....there could be many different reasons. I don't even want to go into that as I don't know their dancing. You are also right that his left leg is too straight and that his foot is pointing the wrong way for a Throwaway Oversway.

You basically pointed the things out that was not or should not be in a Throwaway Oversway in a short precise version. Well done. You have a good eye and a short and clear way of explaining what you see. Love it.:)

Dancepro
 

Warren J. Dew

Well-Known Member
#57
Getting back to the Throwaway Oversway, could you please explain what is so different in the two pictures (QPO's one and Pruthe's one)? I am trying to make out why one Oversway is better than the other, but I do not see too much of a difference.

...
I do not see as much of a difference as th others - to me, it's more a matter of degree than of type. Or perhaps it's more that I've seen much worse throwaways, sometimes on some very high level couples.

The turnout on the man's unweighted foot in the first picture is probably the biggest difference of technique; that's a common mistake. I don't agree that the man's feet are or should be parallel in the second picture, though; the right foot is pointing towards partner, but if you look carefully at Sinkinson's left foot in the second picture, and extend horizontally from the visible heel to the right where the toe would be, the toe is not there. It looks to me like his left foot is turned in by about 45 degrees, and that is correct for this figure. Both ladies appear to have a small amount of turnout in the right foot; I don't know how much should be there. As for the upper body, I would like to see more of the line produced by rotation than is present in either picture - extending the line to the man's left elbow rather than his head - but to be honest, I've never seen that except in Bill Irvine's picture.

The biggest difference between the above two pictures, though, is very simple: in the later picture there is more lowering, resulting in a bigger line. The free leg angles are at about 45 degrees to the floor, while in the first picture, they are more like 55 degrees due to the more limited lowering.
 
#58
An aside: how nice to have the woman in slacks so that you can see not only her legs but also the man's leg behind - its almost a shame that the seemingly interlocking standing leg line, in addition to the outer picture line is not seen when it is danced.
 
#60
wish you wouldn't (stop that is). I find the analysis fascinating since once its revealed I can see what you mean. The only worry I guess is that the first picture was not a fair representation of that couple's dancing - but really that does not matter since it is serving not as a personal critisim (we all have bad days) but as an excellent general teaching tool. I would be happy to use one of us for the same analysis, any embarassment would be far offset by the education...
 

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