Top Couples Dancing both WDSF and WDC

Mr 4 styles

Well-Known Member
#21
Let them all fight it out and work hard to keep their business by providing a better product than their competition. Isn't that what a free market is all about??
totally agree so long as the competitior spending the money can dance in ANY organizations events any time they want without prejudice
However, if the dancers don't have free choice (i.e., dancing with one gets you in trouble with the other),
this must go!!
 

ChaChaMama

Well-Known Member
#22
Ya know in the USA we have NDCA, USADance, the whole collegiate system, and World Promotions. I don't really see a problem with having separate divisions. Do you think ONE organization having a monopoly and controlling EVERY single aspect of ALL competitions in the WORLD would be a good thing??

When I complained about amateurs being the pro in competitive pro-am I was told, point blank, by someone high up in the NDCA world that "competition is healthy, and as long as you provide a good product then you won't lose customers." So I figure of they can say it to me... then they should all live by that standard as well. Let them all fight it out and work hard to keep their business by providing a better product than their competition. Isn't that what a free market is all about??
I agree with Larinda. I do not think it would be a good idea if there was only one organization and am all about healthy competition.

What I don't like is the idea that some competitors (customers, in a sense) and officials are being forced to choose one organization and only one. I don't think circuits should own competitors.

I like that here in the US, competitors (at least for now!) can compete in any organization's competitions at will: NDCA, USADance, collegiate, World Promotions.
As this thread's title suggests, WDC and WDSF may be a "one or the other" kind of situation, and that strikes me as unfortunate.

I noticed that this year, several of the top US amateur latin dancers did not compete at USA Dance Nationals, and of course I worry that this WDC/WDSF stuff may explain that.

I am a college professor. I have a full-time, tenured position, but I am free to freelance at other institutions. My husband has taught for more than one institution at once. Colleges don't make you take a vow of loyalty. I get why some professions might be different; presumably you can't be a Catholic priest and a reform Jewish rabbi at the same time. Fine. I get that. But is there something in the creed of the WDC that fundamentally clashes with the creed of the WDSF?

I'm fine with top competitors not dancing against each other, but I feel like they should have the freedom to choose which competitions they would like to attend. That to me would be MORE of a free market than pick your circuit, then stick with that circuit and that circuit only.
 

Mr 4 styles

Well-Known Member
#28
Federation of Athletes is just words. The two organizations do the same things, offer the same things, and have the same clients.
Larinda, do you think it has to do with the "we want dancesport to be an Olympic event" mentality??
 

dbk

Well-Known Member
#29
I usually watch WDC top-level events on YouTube... I've started watching WDSF events, and it seems like the two organizations are actually diverging in their definition of what "good" dancing is, what techniques and styling will get you to the top, etc. They've become their own little ecosystems.

On the one hand, this makes it very hard to define "the best dancer" and "best technique". On the other hand... well, exactly the same thing! There is more variation, and both little ecosystems have their own strengths and weaknesses.

But it makes for some strange politics. If #1 in one of the organizations dances in the other organization, they could get knocked down a few pegs, since they have different strengths...
 

Warren J. Dew

Well-Known Member
#31



Seems a bit bitter to me.
Or sour, as in sour grapes.

Were the top WDC dancers more "fresh" 10 years ago? Maybe - 10 years ago, it was Christopher Hawkins and Hazel Newberry, and excitement is what they excelled at. Arunas Bizokas and Katusha Demodova excel at something different - technical accuracy and smoothness of action.

Want to change the dancing at the top? Get good enough to beat the champions at their own game, or wait for them to retire while holding everyone else off. That's the way it's always been. First, you get to the top. Then, you can imprint your own style, because the vast majority of competitors will emulate whoever is currently at the top. Of course, in the process of getting to the top, you might learn that your original style isn't everything it's cracked up to be, after all.

I actually liked Edita Daniute's dancing as an individual better than that of Mirko Gozzoli's previous partner. However, from watching their shows, I didn't think that Mirko and Edita ever completely gelled as a couple - their connection was not as good as that between Arunas and Katusha, or between Mirko and Alessia. Based on the interview, I now suspect that's because they didn't have as good a practice schedule.

But, instead of taking responsibility and moving to Italy so they could have a better practice schedule and a better chance of winning at the WDC, Edita chose to blame the judges and move to a smaller pond where she could be the big fish. Don't get me wrong, switching circuits to get a better chance of winning is certainly an understandable choice - it's the part about blaming the judges rather than taking responsibility for her own actions that I find unjustified.

 

Janson

Active Member
#32
From what I've seen, I don't think having two organisations is necessarily bad (although both awarding a world champion title is somewhat strange) but I would really resent them banning you from competing in both. I don't really see the point, other than competing with each other and trying to do the other one over.
Am I right in thinking a majority of English dancers stick to WDC? I've mostly watched WDSF events via there YouTube channel, and never see any English couples at all.
The divergence of style is an interesting point - and personally it comes down to 'I'm going to watch a Waltz - which couple did I most enjoy watching?'. Some of the really fast pivots and such in Quickstep are impressive and good to watch, but they do sometimes break the 'ballroom elegance' which I gather WDC is a little more stringent about. I do think there is an awful lot of posing from some couples, especially in Jive. I mean I know you might want a break, but keep dancing!
 

ajiboyet

Well-Known Member
#33
I usually watch WDC top-level events on YouTube... I've started watching WDSF events, and it seems like the two organizations are actually diverging in their definition of what "good" dancing is, what techniques and styling will get you to the top, etc. They've become their own little ecosystems.
This.

Or sour, as in sour grapes.
I laughed really hard when I read this.

Were the top WDC dancers more "fresh" 10 years ago? Maybe - 10 years ago, it was Christopher Hawkins and Hazel Newberry, and excitement is what they excelled at. Arunas Bizokas and Katusha Demodova excel at something different - technical accuracy and smoothness of action.
I agree, and I think people need to appreciate these differences. The World Professional Ballroom Championships aren't Dancing With The Stars, where everyone needs to be sexy and rubbing your partner's thigh can somehow be worked into a Viennese Waltz.

Based on the interview, I now suspect that's because they didn't have as good a practice schedule.

But, instead of taking responsibility and moving to Italy so they could have a better practice schedule and a better chance of winning at the WDC, Edita chose to blame the judges and move to a smaller pond where she could be the big fish. Don't get me wrong, switching circuits to get a better chance of winning is certainly an understandable choice - it's the part about blaming the judges rather than taking responsibility for her own actions that I find unjustified.
I thought this right when I read the interview. But I didn't want to be the one to say it. I also think the Benedetto talk is just...nice (for lack of desire to use a more caustic word). They both know what will happen whenever they meet with Benedetto.
 

stash

Well-Known Member
#34
I don't completely agree with WDFS saying because they accept the more extreme shapes and movement that makes them more "athletic," and that WDC calls themselves more artistic because they stick to the more traditional ballroom look. Now before people jump and go all angry, yes it is more athletic to do those crazy shapes and to push movement to the extreme, but look at ballet. Those dancers push their bodies to the limits everyday and it's called artistic, and beautiful. They are certainly athletic (please I wish I could be half as flexible and have half as much balance as they do), but the world sees and calls these dancers artistic.

I don't think being more athletic makes you less artistic, or being more tradition makes you more artistic. I think these organizations are doing a diservice to themselves and their dancers by putting on these labels.
 

dbk

Well-Known Member
#35
Honestly I can't see any other way to say it, at least any other way that is polite to both and applicable for the long-term.
 
#37
I think it is more about money and control than anything else. Both organizations have made mistakes, and both have great dancers. While the split may be harmful in some ways, in other ways it will lead the organizations to compete to have the best dancers, and also provide a variety of opportunities to compete. Overall, they will both want your money.
 

ajiboyet

Well-Known Member
#38
I don't completely agree with WDFS saying because they accept the more extreme shapes and movement that makes them more "athletic," and that WDC calls themselves more artistic because they stick to the more traditional ballroom look. Now before people jump and go all angry, yes it is more athletic to do those crazy shapes and to push movement to the extreme, but look at ballet. Those dancers push their bodies to the limits everyday and it's called artistic, and beautiful. They are certainly athletic (please I wish I could be half as flexible and have half as much balance as they do), but the world sees and calls these dancers artistic.

I don't think being more athletic makes you less artistic, or being more tradition makes you more artistic. I think these organizations are doing a diservice to themselves and their dancers by putting on these labels.
True, true. But it's also possible, very possible to go for one at the expense of the other, and I think that's what's happening. Ballerina(o)s push themselves beyond limits, but even though they're are several times more "athletic" than many ballroom dancers, they still create and express a lot more emotion than many ballroom dancers. I think the ballroom dancers might be aware of the tradeoff, and have no qualms with it.

Oh, and I've been meaning to say this: I love the "curtains", Edita.
 
#39
True, true. But it's also possible, very possible to go for one at the expense of the other, and I think that's what's happening. Ballerina(o)s push themselves beyond limits, but even though they're are several times more "athletic" than many ballroom dancers, they still create and express a lot more emotion than many ballroom dancers. I think the ballroom dancers might be aware of the tradeoff, and have no qualms with it.

Oh, and I've been meaning to say this: I love the "curtains", Edita.


I think you are tending to see both tradition and athletic in both WDC and WDSF. Obviously, there will be different things the judges look for in a couple but ultimately if the couple really shines they will probably do very well. In the case of Mirko and Edita, it is a difference of 1st versus 2nd, but either way they have done very well. I'm sure we could come up with long diatribes about one organization being better or worse, but I just prefer to watch what happens. There are couples I love in both, and want them all to do well.
 

Sania

Well-Known Member
#40
I think you are tending to see both tradition and athletic in both WDC and WDSF. Obviously, there will be different things the judges look for in a couple but ultimately if the couple really shines they will probably do very well. In the case of Mirko and Edita, it is a difference of 1st versus 2nd, but either way they have done very well. I'm sure we could come up with long diatribes about one organization being better or worse, but I just prefer to watch what happens. There are couples I love in both, and want them all to do well.
Hopefully in the long run it will mean more dancing for everybody
 

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