When do you stop being a beginner?

dchester

Moderator
Staff member
#22
At first: welcome poetas84 to DF

secondly: Yes, I find this, too. It really is the step towards a more self-determined way of dancing.

Finally: Canaro (frowning): there is so much trash among his works, so how can you be sure to pick up one of his best songs? D´Arienzo (musing): I find rhythmic music rather suites for beginners. And concerning me, D´Arienzo (or Biagi, and also 30s tango-milonga stuff) is my token for pausing, talking, drinking. DiSarli (da-core), Biagi-valses (ok) but I cannot fully hide how his tangos always turn me off.

Interesting, didn´t you dance at home from the very first moment on?
I love Canaro and D'Arienzo, however most Biagi tangos are rather boring to me. I guess it's different strokes for different folks (as Biagi seem to be rather popular to some people).
 
#25
One does not have to recognize and name tango songs and neither do I, but by the time you are able to recognize and name lets say 10 Tango songs you really love, you will have put enough energy into Tango so as not to be considered beginner any longer.
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#27
When someone tells you they're honoured you give them a certain compliment?

BTW, Andabien, I know some pretty advanced followers who make me feel I'm just a prop for steps when I dance with them. Are they beginners?
 

AndaBien

Well-Known Member
#28
...I know some pretty advanced followers who make me feel I'm just a prop for steps when I dance with them. Are they beginners?
Well, you're the one who said they were advanced. If they left me feeling that way, I would never dance with them again.
 
#29
As a follower, I think I became "advanced" when I quite thinking/guessing what steps to execute, when I became confident that I would be able to accompany the leader to experience the full music journey with our movement.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#30
When you can recognize and name at least 3 of the best songs of Canaro,D'Arienzo DiSarli and at least 2 of the best valses of Rodolfo Biagi,
Based on that criterion, I will never stop being a beginner, since I am ridiculously bad at recognizing music and attaching names, and matching things to composers is even worse.

I stopped considering myself a beginner when I really started to own my tango, when I no longer forgave myself my mistakes because "I was a beginner." T'is a very squishy concept, but I remember it quite clearly and it was a definite turning point for me.
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#31
Well, you're the one who said they were advanced.
They certainly would see themselves as "advanced". I might have other words for it, though (they certainly 'advanced' to somewhere in their journey in tango, but not necessarily where I want to go); I should have used apologetic quoting.

And yes, I don't dance very often with them. From time to time, just to convince myself I wasn't having a bad dream. I bet they don't like to dance with me either, because I dance pretty badly when I dance with them; it takes two to tango, even for each individual.
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#32
Based on that criterion, I will never stop being a beginner, since I am ridiculously bad at recognizing music and attaching names, and matching things to composers is even worse.
You could use another criterion: you stop being a beginner when you develop preferences to dancing a certain way (or with certain leaders with a certain style) on a certain type of music.

Conversely, you're a beginner if your dance would look exactly the same if you were dancing with a broomstick on wheels (robotic for followers; an iBroom? ;) ) accompanied merely by the proverbial fat Nubian celeusta beating the drums for Roman republic navy rowers on a galley.
 

Peaches

Well-Known Member
#33
As the first...eh. I want to dance different ways to different music, and with different leaders. Some days, I want alternative and close...other days alternative and big and open...other days, shared weight to traditional music. It's just a mood thing...no way to form preferences. :)

As for the second...definitely not! Although I find it hard to really add my own personality and dance differently when I don't get much personality from the guy.
 

sixela

Well-Known Member
#34
As the first...eh. I want to dance different ways to different music, and with different leaders. Some days, I want alternative and close...other days alternative and big and open...other days, shared weight to traditional music. It's just a mood thing...no way to form preferences. :)
I didn't say fixed preferences -- you can (and actually confess to having) preferences that are mood-dependent. There you go, you're not a beginner.

As for the second...definitely not! Although I find it hard to really add my own personality and dance differently when I don't get much personality from the guy.
And the same actually holds for leaders (as some of my earlier posts suggest).

Some followers are obsessed with "not making mistakes".

They then develop into "advanced" followers obsessed with "looking good", sometimes at the expense of the connection to the music and the partners (if it's not at the expense of the connection to the music and the leader, I consider their obsessive compulsive disorder harmless --at least to me ;) ).

Some of these will then only dance with leaders they know and music they know, to be sure to only do steps they know in a rhythm they know with a step length they know, etc. Because it's "safe" and they will be in control and Look Perfect. Some of them do Look Good, too. As it's someone else dancing with them when you can watch them, they're often pretty to watch (they usually have very good mastery of adornos although there often is something subtly amiss with the timing of their boleos, as if they weren't being led properly even when they are).

"No guts, no glory" is more my motto. And 'guts' is not the temerity to launch yourself in a complicated sequence you've learned at the El Grande Meastro workshop #23 with a follower you haven't even started to connect to properly, it's the guts to let the music and the flow on the dancefloor dare you to take a step into uncharted territory, just because you can and circumstances urge you to.

And for followers, the guts to trust, the guts to actually follow without worrying how you'll look (but worrying how you feel) and the guts to try to explore the freedom the connection with your partner gives you, what feedback you can give and what spice you can add to the dance.
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#35
ah, you stop being a beginner when you fizzle into simultaneous whassisname at the cabaceo and the need to dance is sated....before you leave your chair...;)
 
#36
One time, while I was at a milonga that was part of a visiting teacher's workshop weekend, one lady I was dancing with thanked me profusely for coming over, teaching and being very generous with my dancing. I had to assure her repeatedly that I was not, in fact, that visiting teacher. Gotta admit, it was a pretty sweet ego massage :)
 

bordertangoman

Well-Known Member
#37
One time, while I was at a milonga that was part of a visiting teacher's workshop weekend, one lady I was dancing with thanked me profusely for coming over, teaching and being very generous with my dancing. I had to assure her repeatedly that I was not, in fact, that visiting teacher. Gotta admit, it was a pretty sweet ego massage :)
reminds me of a salsera who in lesson would whisper to each partner. "you're the only one who knows how to do this properly"

she got plenty of dances afterwards :D
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#38
They certainly would see themselves as "advanced". I might have other words for it, though (they certainly 'advanced' to somewhere in their journey in tango, but not necessarily where I want to go); I should have used apologetic quoting.

And yes, I don't dance very often with them. From time to time, just to convince myself I wasn't having a bad dream. I bet they don't like to dance with me either, because I dance pretty badly when I dance with them; it takes two to tango, even for each individual.
That's what I call an intermediate dancer. They can move, they know stuff, but they're sort of missing the whole point.
 

twnkltoz

Well-Known Member
#39
You could use another criterion: you stop being a beginner when you develop preferences to dancing a certain way (or with certain leaders with a certain style) on a certain type of music.

Conversely, you're a beginner if your dance would look exactly the same if you were dancing with a broomstick on wheels (robotic for followers; an iBroom? ;) ) accompanied merely by the proverbial fat Nubian celeusta beating the drums for Roman republic navy rowers on a galley.
I found, several months into my Tango journey, that my taste in leaders started shifting. The guy who is fun because he does a lot of stuff isn't quite so desirable as the man who does less stuff but has a wonderful connection.
 

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